I've never seen you answer this question: Who would you be rooting for if Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao fought each other?

Bread’s Response: Great question, short and to the point. I think I know why you ask me this. It seems as though 75% of the time I am on Pacquiao’s side. I guess people wonder why when I have more in common with Mayweather. We are close to the same age, less than a year separates us. We are both black. The list can go on for days. I will admit if me, Floyd and Manny all attended the same school I would probably have hung out with Floyd. We do seem to have more in common.

I don’t know either guy personally. I have to start off with that. I don’t have a personal encounter that would effect who I am partial to. However I think of myself as being fair and objective. When you are fair and objective you operate on a higher playing field morally. You also will not let people feed you baseless information and accept it as the TRUTH.

I have seen lots of fighters shit talk each other over the years. But I have never seen a fighter attempt to ruin the credibility of another fighter’s career to the extent that Floyd and his family have to Manny. In the hood we call this “HATE”. What Floyd has done to Manny is the equivalent of the hood’s biggest player goes away for a couple of years. He comes home to visit the local hangout and he finds that a new player is in there getting more “love” than he used to get.

Instead of getting in where he fits in, he starts to make up rumors about the new playa. He starts telling people that the new guy's hustle is fake. He even goes so far as to say, that the only reason why he pulls the women he does, is because he pays all of their bills. See where I’m going?

Floyd left boxing for whatever reason in his prime twice. Manny took over the first time, won fighter of the year and outperformed Floyd against common opponents. Floyd retired on own his free will. When Muhammad Ali was forced into exile, he came back and fought Joe Frazier, the guy who had taken over his top spot. When Ray Leonard  came back after his eye injury, he came back and fought Marvin Hagler who took over his top spot. When Floyd came back, he came back with a “STORY” a “RUMOR” to not make a fight. He even went so far as to retire a 2nd time when the “STORY” was no longer an issue.

Floyd is both brutal and brilliant in his political smear campaign. It puzzles me how many “STUPID” people repeat the nonsense that he spits out about Manny. For example someone will repeat, Manny was average before he was 25. Then you look at boxrec and see Manny won 3 titles in 3 divisions, 2 of them lineal, and he skipped 2 divisions doing so before he was 25. No one in the history of boxing has done that. That alone makes Manny one of the top 10 or 15 most accomplished fighters ever under 25. Yet these STUPID people repeat this BS without proper research. I have never been a stupid person.

Now more STUPIDITY gets spewed, without applying common sense. Common sense in my opinion is much more pertinent than book smarts. Both will make you dangerous, but if I had a choice I would take common sense everytime. Some have suggested that Manny didn’t perform well against Marquez in the last fight because he “came down” off of his PEDs. Yet he struggled against Marquez in 2004 and 2008 before the talk of him moving up in weight and PED use. More to the common sense point.

These same people take Floyd’s side on the “FULL RANDOM” blood testing. So common sense should kick in. Why would Manny have to stop taking illegal PEDs in November of 2011, when he may or may not fight Floyd at least 6 months later in May of 2012? If this is indeed true, why is it so important to have FULL RANDOM testing?  Up until the day of the fight is what Floyd has said himself. That to me suggests that Manny can possibly take something a day or two before the fight and have it out of his system for the immediate post fight test . But if he had to come off the PEDs against Marquez because the possibility of a Mayweather fight loomed 6 months later, why was it so important to have up FULL RANDOM testing? Common Sense. Why did Floyd storm out of negotiations when cut off dates were suggested, when Manny has to sort of detox over 6 months out!!!?! Contradictory and I say more HATE. I say Mayweather had to find a justifiable reason Marquez fought Pacquiao with NO special test and almost beat him, when he wouldn’t step in the ring with him under those same circumstances.

Riddick Bowe never fought Lennox Lewis. Mike Tyson never fought George Foreman. Terry Norris never got revenge against Julian Jackson. But they didn’t try to make it out like the other guy was a cheater and that’s why they didn’t make the fight. They just didn’t make the fights.

I don’t like that kind of behavior coming from a fighter. So if it seems that I am on Manny’s side in this particular case, YES I AM. I don’t sugar coat it. As for who I like the best as a fighter inside the ring, I love both of their styles. If you notice I have never said Floyd is boring. Not once. I appreciate all of his subtle brilliance. I equally appreciate Manny’s controlled fury. I appreciate the science (angles) behind it. I appreciate the preparation they both have for the day of combat.

No one is perfect and both guys are flawed outside of the ring. I really don’t get into all of that although if it is in front of my face and if I’m asked I will state my opinion. For example I think Manny gets played like a puppet by Bob Arum. That’s not something I am not fond of about Mannny. Floyd is a rebel, he does the shot calling. I respect the hell out of that about Floyd. But Floyd calls his dad a “faggot” on TV and he gets into heated verbal debates with fighters (Ray Leonard) who are old enough to be his father. That is NOT something I find admirable. Feel me?

So if you ask me who I would be rooting for? I would root for whoever I bet on. I don’t like either guy more than I like my money. And as of right now I am leaning towards Floyd slightly to win if they fight. 55/45. TRUTH.

As you know I pulled Amir Khan's card before the Lamont Peterson fight and said he's a glorified top prospect with a glass jaw and a bad attitude. This whole Khan-Peterson debacle really rubs me the wrong way. First its DC, then its 'the mystery man"....come on son! Just man up and admit you didn't win and give Lamont his props. So to my main issue at hand - why the f*ck is Roach recommending Peterson as Pacquiao's top choice for a June fight on espn.com!? Am I out of my mind or is that just plain stupid? For starters, Roach trains Khan who wants the rematch BAD and has been lobbying on Front Street for the past month..secondly, Peterson is not even close to being considered a leading Pacman opponent given the enormous demand for mega fights for the #1 p4p king. That fight would not be good for the sport or the fans. Is Freddie losing it??

And while I have your ear I'll throw a zinger out there...Manny Pacquiao's advisor Michael Koncz in my opinion is a total fraud and crook - Floyd just went public saying Koncz sold out Arum at his LV gym saying Arum's got no say in this deal and that Koncz delivers the fight. LOL. I hope Bob the Dinosaur turns into T-Rex when he reads that and sons this cat. Anyone who rocks a mullet, his collar outside of the sport jacket with some 1980's busted white reeboks should never be trusted with your career. Period. God bless.-- DJ from NYC

Bread’s Response: I agree with you about Koncz. No argument from me. But you’re wrong about Khan. Khan has a right to be upset about what happened to him in DC. I am a Lamont Peterson fan. I am super happy for the kid. But from the outside looking in, he got a home cooked meal.

Why shouldn’t Khan be upset that a person who is affiliated with Team Peterson, was having significant interaction with a judge during the fight. The same judge scored the fight by one point for Peterson. Did I add that Peterson needed a point deduction in the last round to win the title that he conveniently got, because Khan was winning the last round? Come on man. Anybody would be upset about this situation. Anybody.

I don’t see why it’s a big deal that Roach wants Pacquiao to fight Peterson. Khan has no problem calling out Mayweather, who is an option for Pacquiao. Just because they won’t fight each other doesn’t mean they can’t fight the same people. Roach wants Pacquiao to have an easier fight if he doesn’t fight Mayweather. I don’t have a problem with the Peterson pick, especially since the fight will be at 147 and Peterson can go back to 140 and fight Khan later this year.

 

I am sick of this!!! Listen man... It is this simple...Manny Pacquiao is nothing but a decent fighter whom Freddie Roach made good. Look at who you keep giving him credit for beating. All of these fighters shells of what they used to be and the majority of them took MAJOR butt kickings before they even got in the ring with Manny!!!
Hatton: Bounced off the ring post by Floyd
Cotto: Beaten senseless by "Plaster Man" Margarito
Margarito: Beaten senseless by Mosely
Mosley: Been retired... Making money off who he used to be!!!
DeLa Hoya: Already schooled by Felix Sturm( even though he didn't get credit), a 50 year old B-hop, and Floyd... And he was past retirement age and obviously dehydrated trying to make weight.

So removing all of those gift wrapped wins... Only thing you can give him credit for is Barerra and Marquez... And at least 2 of the Marquez wins are questionable?

So... Lets drop all of the "Tebowmania"... And call a spade a spade!!... Manny Pacquiao is no more significant or greater than a Joe Calzaghe who also cherry picked his opponents and collected all of his notable wins from "Truly Great" boxers who were far past their primes!!

No doubt both will go in the Boxing Hall of Fame for their shenanigans... But when all is said and done "Purists" understand and can recognize the difference between very good and truly "Great".

Manny, Freddie, and Bobby know that Floyd is in another class and they respect that the Mayweather "cherry" is not yet ripe for the picking!! That's why they don't want no part of that May 5th date.

"We want to wait on a stadium to be built.."... Are u serious... In Vegas?... Do you know how many major money fights Bob Arum has been put on in the first Saturday of May in Vegas?!!

Floyd and Oscar didn't need any additional facilities nor did Manny and Shane!!!

So y'all can continue to believe what u want to believe... But the truth is staring at you in your face!!... I just hope Team Money is smart enough not to get their "cherry" picked!!

Shout out to Roy... You were and are one of the best to EVER put on a pair of gloves!!... Nothin left to prove... Please retire for your kids, fans, and all those that love you!!!

I'm out!!!
Bread’s Response: What are you sick of?! If you think Manny Pacquiao is just a decent fighter, then you don’t know boxing. Floyd may be better, he may go down historically higher. But to say Pacquiao is just decent shows your ignorance to the fight science. No disrespect to his fighting heart but Mickey Ward is a decent fighter at the top level. No one with common sense would put Pacquiao and Ward on the same level.

Let’s look at 3 things. Roach’s influence on Pacquiao, Pacquiao fighting supposed washed up fighters. And Floyd and Manny’s resume’s side by side. You will find this research interesting. And hopefully you’re open minded enough to admit you’re wrong.

How can Pacquiao be discredited for Freddie Roach making him better? That is beyond ridiculous. A coach is supposed to nurture, enhance and guide a fighter. So if Roach made him more complete, then we should applause Manny for continuing to improve. I have never heard anyone say if Big Floyd, didn’t teach Floyd Jr. to fight since he was 2 years old then he wouldn’t be the best today. Or if Ray Arcel didn’t help mold Duran, then he wouldn’t have been the best lightweight ever. You make no sense. How many fighters have we seen win a championship and not improve. Jermaine Taylor, Andre Berto and Kelly PAvlik come to mind. Ok 2 more points.


Pacquiao didn’t move up to 147 until December of 2008. Tell me when would be a suitable time for him to fight De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley? He cleared out an era of the best welterweights of the last 10 years almost successively. He only missed Mayweather.


Now let’s do a side by side comparison of the best fighters that each guy fought. Let’s go Floyd first. Floyd beat Genaro Henrnadez for his 1st title. Hernandez is a very good fighter. Borderline HOF type. He had never lost at 130 and only had one career defeat. De La Hoya made him quit a couple of years prior to Floyd beating. I give Floyd full credit for that victory. But a hater could say he feasted on De La Hoya’s leftovers. I’m not a hater.


Next he fought a red hot Angel Manfredy. Manfredy had a couple of losses early in his career, but going into the Mayweather fight he was legitimate threat. Manfredy is one of those contemporary fighters who are only remembered by people of that era. He’s not a HOF or great fighter, but all great fighters have to beat guys like Manfredy in order to be great. Manfredy was outboxed by Stevie Johnston and knocked out by Diego Corrales after Floyd beat him.I give Floyd full credit for that fight.


Floyd destroyed an undefeated Diego Corrales at 130 in his next SIGNIFICANT fight at junior light weight. This may have been his greatest performance. He beat an undefeated monster in his prime. Corrales went on to greater things after this fight. This was an HOF worthy opponent. Corrales is not an all time great, but he is a contemporary great and probable HOFer.


Jose Luis Castillo was not viewed as a great fighter when Floyd Mayweather 1st fought him. He proved to us later that he was. Castillo fought Floyd tooth and nail in their 1st fight. Before Floyd turned into a media bad guy, HBO scored this fight 116-112 for Castillo. To a man, each announcer had Castillo winning. I personally had Castillo winning and thought he swept the last half of the fight. Floyd gave Castillo an immediate rematch and won clearly 7-5 in another tough fight.


Floyd then went up and fought a shopworn Arturo Gatti for his 3rd belt. Going by the Pacquiao theory, Gatti was older, he had been destroyed by De La Hoya, Manfredy and Robinson had beaten him, and this was AFTER his wars with Mickey Ward. Nevertheless Floyd won his 3rd title in his 3rd weight class with a spectacular performance.


Zab Judah was coming off of a typical Zab Judah loss against an ordinary opponent in Carlos Baldimor. Floyd got off to a slow start and unofficial knockdown to dominate Judah from round 5 on. It was a beautiful performance by Mayweather, although Judah would go on to lose to Cotto and Clottey and he had already lost to Kotsya Tszyu. Another fighter some say Floyd ducked.


Oscar De La Hoya was a decent performance for Floyd. Floyd swept the final 4 rounds to win 8-4. But De La Hoya had his moments and held him almost even the 1st 2/3 of the fight. It was not a masterful performance but it was effective. Floyd fought Oscar at 154lbs which is significant. Oscar had just one fight in 3 years by the time he fought Floyd, but he was a part time fighter at that time. Going back to Pacquiao theory, I could be a hater and say Floyd was feasting on Mosley, Trinidad’s and Hopkin’s leftovers.


Ricky Hatton was a very good fighter. He was a powerhouse at 140 and was still good but not as effective at 147. He showed that against Luis Collazo. Nevertheless Hatton was undefeated and probably a Hall of Famer. Floyd took him apart slowly but soundly.


Juan Manuel Marquez is a lightweight. Floyd fought him at a catchweight of 144lbs. Floyd came in at 146 his usual weight. The only time in his career he didn’t meet a contracted weight. He beat a flabby but great fighter in Marquez. Marquez had already been 2 wars with Pacquiao, in which he was knocked down 4 times. A war with Marco Antonion Barrera was he was also knocked down. A fight of the year vs Juan Diaz. And he had lost at featherweight to Freddie Norwood and Chris John. Was he used up? I don’t think so. Floyd just beat up a smaller, but still great man. I give him 85% credit. Coming in over 2 lbs over the contracted weight was shitty thing to do to a smaller man, I won’t just dismiss that as Floyd is better anyway. Honor the contract.


Next Floyd beat Shane Mosley. To me this was Floyd most significant performance. I personally picked Mosley to win. I thought he would grab and maul Floyd to a boring decision. Floyd took Mosley’s best punch early and walked him down and took his fighting heart. Mosley was older and inactive but he was welterweight champion and he was coming off of his best win in years. But if we go by the Manny Theory, he was used up because Cotto, Forrest and Wright and all beaten him before Floyd got to him. See how this goes.

 

Now Let’s go to Manny. He won his 1st title at 19 years old. He beat a 33-1 Chatchai Sasakul. You guys won’t know but let me tell just how good Sasakul was. His only lost came to Yuri Arbachakov. Arbachakov would be in Hof if he were bigger. Many experts consider him to be the best flyweight of the 90’s, he had 10 defenses of his WBC belt. Don’t take my word. Sasakul avenged that loss to Arbachakov giving him his ONLY career defeat. Manny knocked out a lineal world champion at 19 years old. Manny was getting outboxed by the smooth Sasakul. He was green but he showed the same stamina, determination and power he shows now. Look at it on youtube if you don’t believe me. He knocked Saskul out for a 10 count with a huge left hand in the 8th round. Sasakul was just as good if not better than Genaro Hernandez.


Manny then beat Lehlo Ledwaba. Another 33-1 fighter. Another fighter who was considered the best in the division. And again he was the underdog. Pacquiao destroyed him and Ledwaba was a better fighter than Manfredo.


Marco Antonio Barrera. Barrera by accounts is a 1st ballot HOF. He is one of the best ever at 122lbs. He is a top 10 fighter of the last decade. He was ranked #3 by RING magazine when Pacquiao, utterly destroyed him for his 3rd title. Again PAcquiao was the underdog. Barrera is a better fighter than Diego Corrales. After the Pacquiao fight Barerra beat Erik Morales again and some felt he deserved the  decision against Marquez. Pacquioa fought Barrera a 2nd time and beat him 10-2 on a clear decision.


Manny has fought Juan Manuel Marquez 3 times. Each time being ultra close. I personally think Manny won each fight. The 1st the most clearly because of his 3 knockdowns that even an official judge stated that he miscalculated. Nevertheless, Floyd beat Marquez much easier than Pacquiao did and Marquez has a good argument that he won each fight. Marquez is to Pacquiao, what Castillo is to Mayweather. But Marquez will universally be recognized as a better fighter than Castillo.


Erik Morales is another 1st ballot HOF on Pacquiao’s resume. Pacquiao fought Morales 3x, going 2-1 with 2 brutal stoppages. Morales is one of the best 122 and 126 pounders ever and he is also one of the best 10 fighters of the last decade. Pacquiao beat Morales so bad some thought he beat his career out of him. We know that not to be the case now. Ask Marcos Maidana 5 years later!!


Oscar De La Hoya. Manny fought Oscar a year and a half after Floyd went the distance with him at welterweight. Oscar was a considerable favorite to beat Pacquiao. Manny beat Oscar into retitement forcing him to quit. The discredit came afterwards not before. Those who were in the know, knew Oscar was headed to a rematch with Floyd at 147 after Floyd agreed to fight him at 154 in their 1st fight. I give Manny 85% credit for defeating Oscar. Same as I give Floyd for defeating Marquez.


Ricky Hatton. Hatton had never lost at 140lbs. He was lineal champion at that weight. Hatton lost to Mayweather 2 years prior to fighting PAcquioa, but had his moments against Floyd. Hatton had won 2 straight since losing to Mayweather and had actually looked good in defeating Paulie Malignaggi becoming the 1st man to stop him. Again Pacquiao destroyed a common opponent more convincingly. I give him full credit for that victory.


Pacquiao then fights Miguel Cotto. A fighter Floyd never faced at welterweight. Cotto was viewed to be damaged physically after his loss to Margarito, although he had won 2 in a row, including a tough nip and tuck fight against Joshua Clottey. Looking back on Cotto, I don’t think he was as damaged as once thought. After Pacquiao, Cotto has gone on to establish himself as the best 154lber in the world. They fought at 145lbs a catchweight. Cotto weighed in at 146 in his previous fight. I give Pacquiao full credit for beating one of the best 3 or 4 welterweights of the last decade and another HOFer.


Joshua Clottey is spit on now. But when he fought Pacquiao he was viewed as one of the fighters who had never REALLY lost. He was disqualified against Carlos Baldimor in a fight he was winning. He lost a decision to Margarito in a fight he was winning  but injured both hands. And many thought he deserved the split decision against Cotto. Clottey is one of those highly regarded contemporary threats just like Manfredy was. Not only did Clottey outclass Baldimor but he clearly beat Zab Judah. Two Mayweather victims at the same weight. I give Manny full credit.


Manny then fought Margarito. Many didn’t like this fight because it was at a catchweight. But Margarito was always a BIG welterweight. He had never had the success at 154 that he had at 147. So he was allowed to fight at 150lbs, just so the fight could be sanctioned a title fight. This catchweight did not benefit Manny. Margarito came in the ring at 167lbs. He was also allowed to fight in 8 oz reyes gloves. In his rematch with Cotto he had to fight in 10oz Everlast. This was a brutal fight and I give Manny full credit. Margarito is another one of the best welters of the last 10 years that Floyd never faced.


Shane Mosley. Mosley was a year older when he fought Manny than he was when he fought Floyd. Some said Mosley was rusty against Floyd because he had sat out so long. Because of his recent activity, some thought he would do better against Manny. My perception of Mosley had changed. His ability level looked about the same against both fighters but Manny caught him on a cold streak and Floyd caught him on a hot streak. Nevertheless Manny beat him worse. Shane has admitted it. I never liked this fight, I give Manny 80% credit for the victory.


Since the beginning of their championship runs. Floyd has fought 5 once beaten or undefeated fighters. Manny has fought 9. Floyd has beaten sure bet HOF in De La Hoya and Mosley. Corrales, Hatton and Hernandez are borderline. Pacquioa has beaten 6 in Barrera, Morales, Marquez, De La Hoya, Mosley and Cotto. Hatton is bordline.


So now when you really look at the two of them. Tell me how Pacquioa is so protected and manufactured. Tell me how Floyd’s resume is so much better. Actually Pacquioa has the better resume if you go by fighter's ability when they fought. Pacquiao fought the best available fighter in every division he was in except lightweight. Floyd has missed the best fighter in his division every since he left lightweight in 2003.


This is the last time I will take the time to break this down for you. Please read and research carefully and don’t write me with emotions. Write me with knowledge. 71-0 63kos!

 

I'm sure you know by now that Yuriorkis Gamboa is gonna debut at 130 on 3/3 Vs TBA.. Anywho, any names being thrown out there? I keep hearing Rocky Martinez.. If so, I feel TR just wants to see how Gamboa does at that weight, & aren't really challenging him.. Personally, I wanna see him Vs Uchiyama! Did you see his KO Vs Solis? WOW! What a hook.. I think you gave out your KOTY a bit too early LOL, as that was a SICK KO.. I feel that Uchiyama's stock is pretty high after that KO, & I feel he'll come to the US to defend his belt.. Gamboa Vs Uchiyama is what I wanna see for 3/3!
Bread’s Response: I don’t know who Gamboa’s opponent will be in March. But I do think Gamboa will be just fine at 130. If you look at his boxrec weights, he actually fought at 130 several times and he has fought as high as 133. He actually shrunk down a little to 126 to fight for a title. I think Gamboa may have some problems at 135 but he should peak out at 130.


I have a feeling Top Rank will attempt to do the same thing with Gamboa that they did with Pacquiao. They will match him with bigger, slower opponents. If Gamboa is as tough physically as Pacquiao, and he’s able to take the bigger guys punches he should be ok. I wouldn’t expect a Pacquiao run from De la Hoya – Marquez3, but I do think if matched right he can win some titles.


Hey what's good Breadman.. I read a tweet from a boxing writer, & I found his quote to be pin-point & awesome.. He tweeted "It's funny how Martinez is willing to go to great lengths to get the WBC belt that was stripped to him & now belongs to JCC JR... Yet he's not willing to do the same for the WBO belt that now belongs to Pirog." I find that to be SO TRUE!
Bread’s Response: Interesting…………………………………….

 

Hey bread wats the good word… I know all this talk about pac & mayweather its probably getting to be ridiculous already both fighters want the fight there is a lot of obstacles for it to happen but I wanted to talk about cotto’s path how many options he can have if he can go to free agency because bob arum has done him wrong with the negotiations with the pac fight and with margarito like before pac blew up cotto was his cash cow and when cotto lost to margarito and than pac blew up he treated cotto like a step child..like shouldn’t his manager step up and say leave top rank go on your own path and be your own boss..bread if you were his manager what would u advise him to do and what fights would u hook cotto up with….
Danny
Bread’s Response: Cotto has to be careful but he is in a good situation. If he is forced to sign with anybody , he should do it with great guarantees and upsides. Minimums of either 85/15 equity deals with all any promoter or at least a 1 million dollar minimum. Cotto is Samuel Jackson to Denzel Washinton. He may not be the star Pacquiao and Mayweather is, but he is the next best thing.


If I were Cotto I wouldn’t worry about loyalty at this point. I would worry about myself. I’m not saying don’t sign with Top Rank but it also didn’t sit well with me that Arum took Margarito’s side in the handwrap scandal. Golden Boy may have more options for Cotto. Saul Alvarez and James Kirkland are both Golden Boy fighters. But they are both really tough fights for Cotto.


Top Rank has Chavez Jr. but he’s a middleweight. They also have Vanes Martirosyan but he is being moved extremely SLOWWW. He has over 30 fights and has been a pro for going 8 years but he has not stepped up to the championship. So as far as immediate gratification I don’t who Top Rank can match with Cotto. I assume he wants a BIG fight. Cotto should be very patient and not rush anything. He is going into the last leg of his career.


It would be really awesome if Cotto shifted the balance of power and signed with a Goosen, Shaw or Dibella.


 

Bread!!
Thank you for responding a few weeks ago to email about the left hook (thumbs up vs thumbs down). It was good to hear your opinion on that matter. I really respect your views on mythical match up's. I typically agree with you, I'd say about 98% of the time. I honestly believe people give the 'Golden Fighters' of their era the edge in all mythical match ups. I don't know, maybe I've fallen victim to this too, but I watch more film than anyone I know, even most coaches that I know. I often hear a debate on message boards about who would win between Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson. Bread, okay....... listen.... I know what you're thinking and I KNOW this topic has been beat to death even more so than Floyd vs Pacquiao. But I'm asking that you be patient with me and hear me out sir.
When picking in this mythical match up, I've seen that you've given Muhammad Ali the edge to beat Mike Tyson. Yo Breadman, I think I have footage that might (MIGHT) change your opinion. But first let me say that I've personally always thought Tyson would be too much for Ali. I'm not just saying this now because of the footage I've seen, but I've always felt that Muhammad Ali was a sucker for a left hook. That was one of Tyson's best, most effective punches. I've seen Ali dropped by a left hook from Henry Cooper and Joe Frazier. And when comparing Tyson to Ali, I just felt Tyson was just as fast, more explosive, more powerful, maybe a bit stronger up close and just overall more dynamic. Yes, Ali had more character.. but to me, this is a style thing.
People say, "Well, look at what Ali did to Joe Frazier in their last two fights. That right there should show you what he'd do to Mike Tyson. Joe Frazier and Mike Tyson would have the same blueprint. Ali was too big". When I speak of Tyson and Joe Frazier I tell people all the time that they're similar but different. Tyson was much faster on his feet, far more explosive when getting inside, had better head movement, had a better jab, threw shorter and straighter punches, and was just better overall TECHNICALLY (emphasis on the word 'technically'). Don't get me wrong, when I see Frazier drop a rusty and out of his prime Ali I don't put TOO much emphasis on it.. but when I see Ali getting dropped and rocked by the same punch in his prime I have no choice but to think he was allergic to left hooks. Now, the interesting thing about the left hook Henry Cooper knocked Ali down with was that it's pretty similar to the way Tyson used to throw his left hook... weaving under the attack of his opponent and coming up with a short hook. Now, I know Cooper was left handed but word has it Tyson could punch equally as hard with BOTH hands. On top of that, Cooper was only 181lbs.. Ali outweighed him by 27lbs the night of the fight! What I also found surprising was that Cooper being 6'1 was able to get under Ali to throw his hooks. We all know Mike was a pro at using his shorter stature to get under his opponents. Going back to the weight factor.. Mike Tyson, in his prime, they say, was 222lbs or below.. no lower than 215lbs. There's alot more weight coming from that punch when Tyson is throwing it... and Tyson naturally was also the more powerful puncher. I seriously doubt Ali would have been able to recover from a left hook that landed cleanly on the chin (or any power punch) coming from Mike Tyson.
Now, I don't want it to seem like I'm saying Tyson's only hope was to knock Ali out. It's true that ANY FIGHTER has a punchers chance against ANY FIGHTER, but as I said before, I think this is a style thing. In my mind, this wouldn't be a situation of Tyson just getting lucky, I think Tyson's STYLE would have enabled him to knock Ali out. Yes, we've seen Ali hurt before and I know If there's one thing Ali knew how to do, it was win! And he knew how to survive when put under pressure while he was hurt. But, here's the difference... there weren't any short fighters in that era with SKILL SET of Mike Tyson to take advantage of the openings that were avilable when Ali was hurt. I mean, you had punchers like Liston, Foreman, Floyd Patterson to some degree (who reportedly has lowerback issues when he fought Ali), Norton and Frazier but Tyson was a different beast being more "speedy", more explosive, more dynamic, and seemingly even more strategic on where he placed his punches when his opponent was hurt. If Tyson fought Ali, he would hurt Ali at some point in the fight (most likely early), and I believe he would stop Ali within 9 rounds. I know I sound crazy and I'm only 26 years old but I've done my homework and I can't be the only one feels this way..
Okay, here's the footage I mentioned earlier, but when watching it, notice how the head movement and low stance and STYLE of Cus D'Amato. This is identical to how Tyson used to fight. And then things Ali would say in refernce to that style and the intelligence behind it..the part I'm speaking of starts at 1:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrWlHDYDkjg . It's funny footage overall and great to watch in general for those who haven't seen it. But when looking for certain things and studying it, I notice that Tyson along with the mind of Cus could have beaten Ali. Let me know what you think Bread! Thanks for you time again man.. it's much appreciated!
P.S.
To those who think Ali's mind games would give him the edge in the fight I'd like to say that I think Cus would have prepped Tyson in advance for the mind games. I'm not saying that they wouldn't have had NO effect, I'm just saying that with Cus in his corner I'm more inclined to believe Tyson would have been far more focused before and during the fight.
Sean Hall,
San Francisco! SFC Boxing Gym
Bread’s Response: With Muhammad Ali celebrating his 70th birthday this week, I guess it is symbolic to talk about him. We can agree this would have been the biggest fight of all time. But that’s about all we will agree on.


With all of Ali’s popularity, we do him an injustice showing his fights in the 70’s. For all of you young guys reading, boxrec Ali. Look at his footage from 1964-67. Sonny Liston 1-Zora Folley. You will see one of the top 6 or 7 fighting machines this world has ever seen.


Ali was extremely unconventional like Roy Jones. He made mistakes that his athleticism made up for. The difference between him and Jones is Ali’s unworldly chin and toughness. Any list of the top chins ever, Ali makes it. His toughness is even higher than his chin. I bring that up to say Tyson “ain’t” stopping Ali, under no circumstances, just like he couldn’t stop Holyfield.


You bring up styles. But character is a big part of your style. Tyson fights a frenetic almost panic type of fight. As high as Tyson’s boxing IQ is, he never learned to take something off of his punches and settle down and fight a prolonged fight. Think about that. That in itself is a character flaw. When you fail to do something that you know will benefit you. Tyson had no confidence in his ability to carry a long fight. On the other hand Ali believed he could fight 25 rounds if he had to.


Emanuel Steward is not a fan of Ali’s fighting style. He likes more aggressive stalkers. But he is in awe of one of Ali’s abilities. He talks about how Ali can fight tired better than anybody he has ever seen. I won’t use his name, but I am friends with an older gentleman who is very close to Ali. They used to train together. He told me that after running 5 miles together, Ali would say now the real runs begins. He claimed Ali used to say, “you have to run until you throw up.” He told me Ali would proceed to put in another 4 or 5 miles until he threw up.


Ali’s sparring partners, one of whom trains fighters at my gym. Will tell you to a man. That Ali can take more punishment than any human being they have ever seen. When Ali realized he was a shot fighter in the 70’s and his hands were brittle ,so the kos weren’t coming as frequent, he tuned his body for warfare. That’s why he was stopped just once in 61 fights and that was a corner stoppage. Because of his fighting style and good looks, people don’t equate him with supreme toughness, but Ali could be the toughest man who has ever lived, at least he’s in the argument.


You bring up the “styles”. Ali was dropped 3 times by left hooks, Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper and Joe Frazier. But none of these punches dropped him  during his 1st championship run. I’m not dismissing the incidents ,they happened. But don’t you realize that the threat of Mike Tyson would make Ali fight a secure fight. He would be on his pees and qsss, like Hopkins was against Trinidad. Supreme athletes rise to the occasion.


You think left hooks, bother Ali. Let’s go back to character. He fought Henry Cooper again. Many people don’t remember that. In England his home country I might add. He also fought Floyd Patterson twice, who had one of the best left hooks ever. He fought Frazier 3x. I don’t think that left hook bothered him that much. Did I say he fought Bob Foster, who had arguably the best left hook ever? Sonny Liston twice. His left hook was death. Jerry Quarry twice, he had a great left hook. Ask Joe Frazier. Kenny Norton also had a tremendous left hook and he fought him 3x. That’s just the left hookers on his resume. Man o man.


Ali’s legs would allow him to escape the bull rushes, his heart and jab would allow him to get his respect and his pedigree would stop Tyson late everytime my friend. Styles. No disrespect but you must want Tyson to beat Ali. And that’s ok but there is nothing that anybody that can tell me to convince me could. Ali would not even engage Tyson early. He was also supremely smart.


Styles. If you took everything into consideration, you would look and see Buster Douglas looked very similar to the Ali that gashed Cleveland Williams and Ernie Terrell. I am a huge Tyson fan. I have tried to defend him through the years. But here is the reality.


In his prime and after, Tyson lacked “staying power”. Tyson never overcame significant adversity. Everytime faced with adversity, he was stopped in fights. Tyson never lost a fight by decision. I am shocked you dismiss character and give more credence to styles.


Tyson who is a short, pressure fighter, ALLOWED himself to be tied up more than any other fighter of his caliber I have ever seen. Think about that. Even before the Douglas loss. Tony Tucker, Bonecrusher Smith, Jose Ribalta, James Tillis, Jesse Ferguson all tied Tyson up, rather easily. At the time it did not alarm anybody but it was very relevant. Holyfield was able to “walk” Tyson around the ring at will in both fights, in clinches.

Ask yourself, why Tyson wouldn’t work more out of clinches.
I think I know. He had no confidence in his stamina. It takes energy to do that. Tyson also lost “form” after 4 rounds of every fight he was ever in. The clinches became more apparent and prolonged. His feet became squared. His head movement stopped and he started throwing one bomb at a time. Go to each of his prime fights and look at the 1st two rounds. Then fast forward to round 5 and you see a huge difference in Tyson.


Tyson’s only chance against Ali would be to hit him with a death shot on the nerve center in the first 2 rounds. Ali reflexes were too superior to get hit with that shot, in a fight that BIG. In a 15 round era, Tyson would have no chance with him. In a 12 round era he would have NO chance with him.


Let’s talk about CHARACTER. Tyson would not fight an old man in (George Foreman), that Ali fought when he was a  young man. Ali is 7 years OLDER than Foreman. Tyson is 17 years younger!


I don’t mean to insult you. Your opinion is your opinion. But Sometimes people over analyze things and they make sports out to be exact science. It’s not. 2+2 does not equal 4 in boxing. I respect you did your research. But you researched what you wanted to, to form an opinion you wanted to have. Your opinion is just wrong and Tyson would tell you. He is even quoted as saying “ Ali is better than everybody else, because he has more  CHARACTER”. INSIDE of a boxing ring, Muhammad Ali’s CHARACTER is impeccable.

 

What's good Bread?,
I just wanted to ask a follow up question to the following response in your last mailbag to my initial question:
Bread’s Response: Good question. If I thought my fighter could win the fight, I would take it. If I didn’t I wouldn’t mortgage his career at 21. But let me say this. I don’t know what Team Alvarez is thinking but Canelo is not totally upside down in a fight with Mayweather. I would favor Floyd, but Canelo has a decent shot.

I actually re-watched Mayweather-Ortiz and Alvarez-Cintron to see if there is something I'm missing because I just don't see it. I trust your superior boxing eyes and in the interests of improving my own I would like to know why you say that Canelo is "not totally upside down"? Don't get me wrong, I know that no fighter is invincible and Canelo is a precise puncher with heavy hands, however I see his slow feet and leaky defense as too much of a liability to pull off the upset.
I also wanted to ask you about the proposed catchweight of 150. Does your opinion change if the fight takes place at 150 instead of the division limit of 154? I think Canelo is totally upside down if he concedes those 4 pounds. I look forward to hearing your take on this
- William from West Palm
By the way I appreciate the history lesson on the backdrop to Trinidad-Vargas. As you have stated before people often subscibe to the "herd theory" and simply follow along with the prevailing opinion (in this case, Vargas was rushed) while forgetting the circumstances of the fight. I guess we can't have it both ways lol, if Vargas had never fought Tito we may have said he was protected. Instead he fought him and lost and now we say he was rushed. Looking back I respect that he dared to be great, especially in light of the fact that up-and coming fighters (and young titlists) often avoid one another
Bread’s Response: I feel Canelo can’t make 147. GB wanted him to win a title at 147 but he just couldn’t make the weight. He is extremely dense. I’m not sure if 150 is too low also. I’m sure he has done a body composition test. That tells you how low you can really go without hurting yourself.


Floyd was willing to fight Oscar at 154, so Canelo does a have a sticking point. If I was Canelo I would fight for 154 weight limit.


As for the fight itself. I would pick Floyd to win. But it’s not a blowout. 1st off if they fight in May, everytime Canelo punches the crowd would go ape shit. That alone will get Canelo some points he probably wouldn’t get on another date.


Canelo is also to me one of the “best” punchers in boxing. Notice I didn’t say hardest. I have never caught mitts with him. And I truly believe a fighter only punches as hard as what his opponent’s can take. But Canelo does not load up. He punches in combination to both head and body. And his punches are very judge and fan friendly.


Floyd fights more and more these days in the box. As Robert Jackson stated about Ray Leonard and Wilfred Benitez. They decided to just “box”. No running, no over pressing. They wanted to see who was better. That is Canelo’s comfort zone. Floyd would be in a real fight, standing in the “box” with this kid, shoulder rolling and parrying.


I also thought Victor Ortiz hurt Floyd. Look at the 4th round of the fight and the sequence of punches before the head butt. Ortiz hit Floyd with a short left hand, right hook combination that locked Floyd’s legs up. Ortiz is such a stupid fighter, he panicked and decided to foul Floyd after his best volley of the fight. But the point is Canelo, punches sharp and in combination. He also does not seem weak mentally. Last but not least he has youth. Sometimes being young allows you to have more bright spots than an older man. Hustle you may say. I pick Floyd to win, but I think it would an entertaining good fight. In order for Floyd to dominate he would have to fight like he fought Carlos Baldomir. I’m not saying he can’t but he doesn’t fight like that anymore.

 

G

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