Ivan Montiel: Talk to me, what’s the latest with Celestino Caballero?
Celestino Caballero: Well we are here in Panama with this pandemic going on as you know. But I am studying law in the university.
IM: That’s great! You have a book out for sale, right?
CC: Yes I have a book named Mi Ultimo Round in Spanish for only $10. [www.amazon.com/%C3%9Altimo-Round-Autobiografia-Celestino-Pelench%C3%ADn-ebook/dp/B07W86M6RN]. Now we decided to publish it in English as well since I have fans who don’t understand Spanish.
IM: Speaking your fans, you gained many fans in Canada during your 122-pound unification fight versus Steve Molitor.
CC: Yes it was incredible! I noticed many people backstage after that fight who I didn’t even know congratulating me! There were not only Latinos but also Canadians cheering me on after that win!
IM: Even your fellow Panamanian Roberto “Manos de Piedra” Duran was supporting you that night!
CC: Yes he was! Duran was very interested in my unification fight, it was an important fight especially since he himself had unified titles in his career.
IM: You had the WBA title and you took the IBF from Molitor that night [in 2008]
CC: That’s correct Ivan! I felt very good after have trained hard for that fight. I was motivated to accomplish what Duran had accomplished.
IM: Many Canadians were upset at me for picking you to win saying I was biased for the Latino...
CC: (Laughs) Well I remember you saw me do a workout there showing my speed, my movements and I imagined that you had seen Molitor fight before right? I was simply better although some said Molitor was too slick for the division.
IM: It’s not always just the skills, it’s also the hunger what makes a complete fighter!
CC: Exactly! If you take note Colon, Panama where I come from is full of talent, we have power, we are warriors, we fight on the streets, we have 9 out of 30 [Panamanian] champions here in Colon, Panama! We have the first world champion coming out of Colon, Panama and we have the only Olympic gold medal for Panama up till now. Colon, Panama is so rich with talent that many don’t realize the amount of talent we have from sports to music, you name it! Colon, Panama has lots of history!
IM: You just mentioned music, I know how much you love music!
CC: Yes I play the congo [drum]. I also dance and sing. It’s something from growing up which is given to every child here. We have athletes, dancers you name it! Panama unfortunately doesn’t support fighters as much as they should. With my boxing career, not too many people gave me much of a chance... I am talking about government people [who could have supported me better]. I had to work my way up, it was tough you know. I never participated in a regional and national tournament. I only had amateur 16 fights which in reality was not enough to qualify me for the professional level. Somehow, I was able to make it as a pro fighter. I simply learned to fight by sparring with the elite fighters here who worked me hard. Nothing was easy but that is what made me a grow as a person and boxer. I never feared anybody. Those sparring sessions were extremely tough but I was mentally strong and that’s what made me become a world champion. I always thought one day I will become world champion.
IM: You accomplished that dream of becoming a world champion unfortunately you did not get some of the fights that you wanted. Many boxing fans wanted to see you versus both Juanma Lopez and Yuriorkis Gamboa.
CC: Yes unfortunately those fights didn’t take place because the managers protected their fighters. I always told my manager don’t tell me yes and no because I always wanted to be reconized as a great champion! I never wanted to fight journeymen. I always asked for Israel Vazquez, Rafael Marquez, Jhohnny Gonzalez, all of them. But nobody dared to put those types of fighter in the ring with me. I always thought how can one consider himself a champion when he doesn’t accept the challenge?
IM: Do you think perhaps it was because they saw you take apart a puncher like Daniel Ponce De Leon [in a 2005 elimination bout]?
CC: Yes of course! After I beat Ponce De Leon, Golden Boy Promotions feared me. Golden Boy Promotions sent me a contract with only twelve days before the fight. What fighter is going to be 100% ready with only twelve days? And it was a world title fight! I simply took that opportunity because I had been training for months, I’ve always kept myself in fighting shape. When I was training I would forget everything, my house, the streets... I would only concentrate on the gym. Ponce De Leon couldn’t believe it after landing his power punches I simply stood up. I responded with triple shots as he landed single shots. Oscar De La Hoya was shocked because he thought Ponce De Leon was going to beat a journeyman. I ruined their party! It’s unfortunate the fight with Juanma Lopez didn’t take place because I would’ve knocked him out! I don’t only train, I also study my opponents. I studied their strengths as much as their weaknesses. That’s why I made it look easy whenever I beat someone. My opponents didn’t imagine what I was doing before the fight.
IM: Speaking of Ponce De Leon he hit hard, tell me how hard did he punch?
CC: I felt his power alright but I was also prepared, I had trained very hard. I sparred with bigger guys, I was already used to fighting strong guys.
IM: You mentioned Juanma Lopez talk a little more about him and why that fight never occurred
CC: I was at Lopez vs. Rogers Matagwa [in 2009].. Juanma got lucky in that fight. I thought to myself 'Juanma Lopez thinks he’s better than me?' The only way to find out who’s better is to make a fight. Matagwa wasn’t at my level yet Lopez thought he could beat me? Juanma Lopez was in big trouble that night. That night Puerto Rican fans shouted Juanma Lopez as I passed by. I responded by saying “Let’s do it!” I would’ve traveled to Puerto Rico for that fight! Promoters can be promoters but the fans are who decide which fights they want to see!
IM: Didn’t you make a video demanding that fight?
CC: Yes I did. That was after I captured the IBF title from Molitor therefore I was unifed WBA/IBF world champion. I should also mention I once ran into Peter Rivera who was associated with Juanma Lopez, and we briefly spoke. I asked him “When are you going to put Juanma Lopez in the ring with me?” He responded “Do you think I am dumb, I know that you will knock out Lopez, he’s my golden egg, I cannot put him in there with you.”
IM: I noticed your fancy footwork when you did that open workout here in Toronto. Having good foot work helps a lot with fighting, it’s not just punching.
CC: That’s correct. The most important tool is being able to defend yourself, my hands are to connect but my feet are to move around that ring with my hips. It’s about rolling with the punches. One thing I should mention to you about my fight versus Molitor is the weigh-in. If I remember, you couldn’t attend right?
IM: No unfortunately I wasn’t able to make it.
CC: I recall eating a biscuit with tea prior to stepping on the scale as team Molitor looked shocked that I was still able to make weight. I had trained my ass off! Boxing is not for pretty boys it’s for mean and ugly guys!
IM: What about your fight versus Jason Litzau, in 2010, when you moved up in weight to 130 pounds. You lost to him... talk to us about that fight, what went wrong?
CC: I simply moved up from 122 to 126 after beating Daud Yordan. I beat the crap out of Yordan. Once guys like Lopez and Gamboa saw that beatdown, nobody wanted to fight me. I kept calling those guys out yet none of them responded. Then all of a sudden a fight with Litzau came along and I accepted since I love fighting. I was smaller since I was moving up from 122. I felt I won that felt, Litzau fought dirty hitting me multiple times on my back and neck. Litzau was being favored. I kept calling for the ref’s attention but he wouldn't even warn Litzau, who was the American fighter with me of course coming from Panama. I knew I had won that fight but Litzau won... on paper that is.
IM: How does it feel to get screwed in a fight?
CC: It’s injustice! It’s unmotivating but afterwards, I was still hungry and that’s why I was able to move back down to my natural weight [126] becoming a [WBA regular] champion once again. If a fighter isn’t mentally strong he can get lost and can never bounce back again. I am always thinking about my family who I must support.
IM: We briefly mentioned Gamboa. Now tell us what’s your thoughts on his recent loss versus Tank Davis?
CC: Look Ivan, Tank Davis has problems with any tricky fighter, which Gamboa is Gamboa has lost his hunger... yes, he made many proud but if that fight was a couple years earlier, Gamboa beats Davis! Gamboa’s style of fighting is non-stop attack, the same way guys from Panama fight. Davis depends on his power, but he’s limited. Once someone figures him out, he can play with him. The problem with many fighters is simply they don’t know how to calculate. It’s about timing, to hit and not get hit. Once Davis shoots, you should move and counter attack\ with a five-punch combination. Even if a fight goes the distance, as long as you land the most punches, you should win.
IM: I feel that boxing fans right now don’t understand the sweet science. They think that it’s all about having punching power. Boxing is all about being a smart fighter.
CC: Exactly! An intelligent boxer beats a power puncher. A well-trained boxer beats a power puncher. A fighter with discipline beats a power puncher.
IM: How about your 2006 fight vs. Somsak Sithchatchawal where you won the WBA world title?
CC: Let me put it this way, after dismantling Sithchatchawal within three rounds-- and he was a guy that had not lost in eight years before that-- Celestino Caballero was here to stay!
IM: Many boxing fans always questioned how a tall lanky guy like yourself could make the 122-pound weight?
CC: It’s difficult but when one has discipline, one can accomplish anything. It’s all mental. One must eat right aside from working out. Yes I had one off day a week because our body needs fat... but just one day of the week. My metabolism is fast, I tend to burn calories off quickly. You saw me all covered up when visiting Canada during the winter yet I was sweating at the same time. That cold felt good. I was fighting at 122 from 1998 to 2009. That’s exdordinary! It’s a big responsibility to have to make weight for a fight.
IM: What’s your thoughts when you see guys not able to make weight come fight night.
CC: It’s irresponsible. I blame the fighter... The weight belongs to every fighter, not their trainer. A trainer gives you the technique to fight. That’s all there is to it!
IM: I think that maybe guys that are irresponsible aren’t serious about the sport of boxing. Maybe they just want to make money become famous but that’s all. Boxing is not about just making a living it’s also about making history, fighting for pride right?
CC: Yes, Ivan I completely agree. These types of fighters focus too much on how much they are going to earn in one fight. To be reconzed in the history of boxing is more important than to have earned more money. If a fighter keeps making history the money keeps rolling in. These types of fighters don’t have the hunger, the discipline. I always wanted to be an equal to Roberto Duran. I want to one day be entered into the International Boxing Hall of Fame. When I saw myself being considered as top 10 pound for pound in the Ring magazine, it was something incredible! I said to myself “I am considered one of the best fighters amongst the best fighters of the world!”
IM: I always say I respect fighters like yourself guys who fight for pride, for the history of boxing!
CC: Duran, Leonard, Hagler and Hearns were all being promoted by different guys yet they all fought each other. Duran was a monster and those guys knew it yet they didn’t fear him. Times as you can see have changed. It’s time to do that again and if a fight is questioned than have a rematch. If a rematch ends in controversy than make a trilogy!
IM: Exactly! I think perhaps it’s all because many fighters want to make the millions that Floyd Mayweather Jr earned.
CC: Yes but Mayweather Jr was his own boss. Canelo Alvarez wasn’t fighting under Mayweather Promotions. Golden Boy Promotions tends to put two of their fighters to fight each other. Top Rank Boxing does the same damn thing.
IM: Many say that boxers today are being protected
CC: You are right Ivan! I called out Ponce De Leon, I walked right into the ring after one of his fights. I flew in from Panama to demand that fight! Ponce De Leon didn’t have to ask for a rematch, I was willing to do a rematch with him. The crowd was shocked. Oscar De La Hoya was upset but why isn’t that what boxing is all about? Boxing fans wanted to see it but Ponce De Leon didn’t due to my height. I was simply too damn tall for him. Ponce De Leon couldn’t reach me. It would’ve been a worse beating in a rematch. Ponce De Leon didn’t learn anything from our first fight. The Mexican crowd cheered me on as I walked out of the stadium in Texas. I simply turned that fire on with a match! The Mexican crowd shouted at Ponce De Leon saying “Don’t back off!” That’s being a warrior! To be a warrior one must demand fights. I was willing to travel the world in order to fight anyone! I didn’t need anybody’s protection, I went to other’s backyard to become world champion!
IM: Amazing! Caballero you sure are a warrior, you had a tremendous career and I always enjoy talking boxing with you. You have made Panama proud.
CC: Thanks Ivan I truly appreciate your time.
