DAILY BREAD TUESDAY EDITION:(8-12-14)
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
Whats good bread n butter, hope all is well with you and yours. Been awhile homie, but i see you still fighting the good fight. Keep pushing.
Wanted to know who would be the fighters that you would most want to see during their primes...i know its so many to pick from, but my list consists of jack johnson, walker smith, joe gans, willie pep/sandy saddler, hammerin hank, jimmy wilde and archie moore. who'd be on your list?
you boy marquis from the one and only southeast dc
Breadís Response: You know there is a myth that there is no footage of Ray Robinson at welterweight. Thatís not true. There are about 4 fights of Robinson in his mid 20s actually before he won the title in 1946. Then there is some when he went on his European tour around the time he beat Lamotta for the title before/after. He was highlighting those guys Luc Van Dam and the boysÖItís not long and the film quality is poor but itís good enough to see what you need to see. That being said I would like to see him in entirety throughout his 20ís culminating with his legendary defense of his welterweight title vs Kid Gavilan. Iíve seen Pep and Saddler.....Iíve seen Armstrong.
Archie Moore at middleweight would be cool. Jack Johnson didnít win the title until he was 30, so I assume we missed his prime, that would be awesome to see. Joe Gans was incredible I would have loved to see him. But the guys who stick out the most to me is Sam Langford and Harry Greb. If we could see more of them who knows. Those guys are already fighting for the best fighter ever p4p with limited and no footage.
I hadn't been in touch in a little while, but I kept up on the info and I am always reading.
In your last bag you touched on a few subjects and while you are always very clear in your thoughts, I'm not sure I got the whole thing + I have questions of my own.
Your explanation of the domino effect of the Money vs Pacman tussle that never was made sense and I have to admit is factual. We do tend to forget these things.
That said, this is to coach Breadman:
You claim that Kovalev rarely counter punches when facing opposite fire (in so many words). Coach, my thing is this, how many fighters really do? Holyfield in his day was a master at it but that is a skill that very few fighters possess. A prime Manny did it too, ODH also, but I can't think of too many guys who do/did it. How can that be considered a flaw when so few are able to do it?
Kovy becomes disorganised when you "step to him" with a multiple punch volley. You then go on to explain what he does as far as stepping back and starting his offence anew. My thing is this, if his skill set does not allow him to counter as you say then how is doing what he does a mistake? Of course, there are always better things or more efficient things you can do but it's important to keep in mind what he does do. He is an offensive terror and doesn't it makes sense for him to step back, gauge the threat and with all his experience as a fighter (amateur/pro) figure out what his got in front of him and hit it? You point out these supposed flaws, but the thing is he doesn't seem to lose too many rounds. Anyways, he brings his own judges in there. How is he disorganised when that happens? (I don't get it, maybe I need to pay closer attention). If you look at the history of the sport, one of your all time favourites and truly one of the greatest: The brown bomber Joe Louis himself did the same thing. As a matter of fact, as a much younger man, I remember reading a tale of wisdom from venerable trainer Eddie Futch (rip) who explained that Joe Louis would never punch if you weren't at a certain distance, he was very deliberate about his destruction. I don't think you would consider that a flaw? Aren't you trying too hard to find a flaw?
To Breadman the historian:
Aliens run is better at 175 than 160. Wow, that is saying a lot about a pugilistic master whom as you pointed out once is unique in the sense that he's had better results in his 40's than his 30's not to mention his 20's. That's awesome!
You claim that the 160-168lbs jump is the hardest in the sport, but isn't the 175lbs to 200lbs at least on a par? People forget that cruiser is always one of the toughest division without the pay everything being relative. 147-154 also seems pretty steep. 122-126 not easy either.
To Breadman the observer:
You mention rightly that Alien has the juice to make certain things happen and that this fight is a good thing since it shows that if there is a true will, things can be arranged and hurdles crossed.
How was he able to gather so much "juice" when we know him to not being a top ticket seller, not even in the Philly area. Should we attribute it to his longevity and excellence at the top or is there a darker political side to it that we don't know about?
The signing of Alien vs Krusher has another political undertone because Superman all of a sudden is left out. Tell me if I read this right? Kathy Duva got her wish and gets a marquee well compensated fight for her man. But her dropped lawsuit if you are aware brings up a lot of interesting points if you consider the fallout at Golden Boy recently. I have a feeling this fight was made to keep certain things in the dark concerning certain alliances (Haymon-Shaeffer) and their true goals. I have a feeling Haymon (a lawyer ironically) wanted no part of a courtroom battle and exposure. Schaeffer wants an arbitrator not a court. If these things are not linked, there seems to be a very strong correlation. Let's not forget Money's sudden change of heart concerning his dealings with GBP.
Breadís Response: You make it sound like I made something up in order to criticize him. Letís remember Hopkins made this fight before Krusher got into the ring with Blake Caperello. In my humble opinion the Cedric Agnew fight told him something....As I was watching that fight I noticed Kovalev takes a hard reset when you step ďintoĒ him. He does it over and over again without countering you.
A guy like Hopkins will double jab him and force him back, tie him up and reset him consistently without taking too much punishment in return. Iím not even picking a winner. I think itís a 50/50 fight. Iím a huge Krusher fan but I was asked and that is what I saw. After the fight I want you to write in and we will talk about this reset habit he has.
And no Joe Louis does not reset like Kovalev. Louis caught and countered, or jabbed ďwith youĒ to move you off of your spot. Not even close bro.
This is not the worst thing I have ever seen as far as a flaw or habit. But it does exist. A guy like Hopkins doesnít need much. Heís operating on a different IQ level.
175-200 is huge and most donít even try. I would assume 25lbs functional lbs are hard to put on but the Cruiser Weight division is so obsolete nobody really cares. Good fighters who are 200lb amateur stars can barely get signed....Sad but true. I didnít consider the cruiser jump because fighters donít want to fight there. For the most part the division is a pit stop.
There have been lots of great welterweights who have moved up and challenged the middleweight champion. Why are you giving Floyd Mayweather a pass for not trying? Mickey Walker, Henry Armstrong, Carmen Basilio, Kid Gavilan, Ray Robinson, Emille Griffith, Ray Leonard all tried. Iím not the historian you are and Iím sure I missed some names. But if Floyd is what you say he is how come he wonít fight GGG? Floyd could even force GGG to fight a catchweight fight. This would be historic. And he has a shot to win. He waited on Sergio Martinez and look what happened. Cotto beat Martinez, that should have been Mayweather but he always takes the safe way out and you always take up for him.
Breadís Response: You must be high bro. Seriously. Iím not taking up for Floyd Mayweather. You just want to see him get killed thatís all. GGG is too much for him for to fight. He would ko Mayweather if Mayweather tried to win which is what he would do if he fought him.
Iím not saying I wouldnít applaud him if he tried but I am saying Iím not going to give him crap if he doesnít. Mayweather rehydrates up 1lb in an era where guys put on 20lbs after the weigh in. And you want him to take on the most physical fighter in the world who happens to be a solid middleweight. You just want to see him get hurt and youíre pissed. I get that but donít get upset with me.
This era aggravattes me with all of the weight jumping anyway. You have guys ducking threats by simply moving up in weight. Then they donít clean out their divisions and they want to leave for an easier bigger opponent. Iím not going to knock a fighter who wants to stay in his division and makes the weight in a professional manner. Everyone has a capacity of effectiveness as far as weight climbing. There are some middleweights Floyd could beat and I always felt he had a great shot to beat Martinez. Cotto proved that. But Floyd didnít jump at it, oh well. Thatís on him but GGG is not Martinez bro and I think that is too much to ďexpectĒ of Floyd.
Sure we should embrace it if it happens but we shouldnít require it. You seem to be requiring him to move up to middleweight. On top of that remember he has moved from 130-154 but that doesnít seem to be good enough for you. Now you want him to go fight a top 10 p4p guy at 160.
I donít take up for anyone all I do is call it how it is. Itís easy you should try it.
Does Danny Garcia have a top 5 lead hand hooks in boxing? he gets my vote but what do your expert eyes say? He looked sharp and much more comfortable at 142--is it time to move up to 147 and is 140 too much of a struggle.
you have inspired me to go back and watch a lot of Sugar Ray Robinson, he was a master at whipping that right to an opponents lead flank/short rib...then using the hook as a change up like he did against Gene Fullmer.....Am I wrong to think it could be a very good punch for Floyd to use against Maidana.
Last week one of the announcers said Bernard would be favored against Kovalev? Did I hear that wrong-- favoring a 50 year old man against a young strong power punching champion doesn't seem logical even if it is a gifted, savvy, tough alien? I was hoping B-hop would be an underdog as I missed out on making that Trinidad money.
Breadís Response: No doubt about it. Dannyís hook is the truth. Heís great at countering with it or setting you up to trade with him. He did look at sharp at 142 but trust me he would have did the same exact thing to Salka at 140.
Robinson had the best whipping right hand to the flank I ever saw. And he had the best hook I ever saw. Go figure. Floyd could use that against Maidana but you have to really commit to do that. Floyd stays in his pocket and his punch delivery is different from Robinsonís.
My guys from Vegas told me that Bhop is the official underdog as far as betting lines. I actually think this is a 50/50 fight.
What did you think of the Barclay card on Showtime? Are you as outraged as most. And more specifically Rod Salk as a title challenger. Not to mention the Australian Fletcher he was terrible.
Breadís Response: You know what bro I love boxing so I watched it. But honestly I wasnít thrilled about any of the fights. The guy Lamont Peterson fought Edgar Santana was a decent showcase opponent. If they would have matched him with Danny Garcia then we wouldnít have had the outrage. I understand what they were trying to do but they just over did it a little bit with Rod Salka. They should have saved Salka for a kid like Omar Figueroa, thatís more of a fair fight and Figueroa is a lightweight.
I respect all fighters and I really respect Salka. Heís a nice kid. He was just overmatched by so much it was scary. That ko reminded me of Gatti vs Gamache. I donít have a problem with Danny making a showcase defense but how about against a guy like Mikey Perez who is from Newark. Thatís a showcase but itís reasonable. You live and you learn Iím sure whoever had this idea, wonít do this again. Nobody wants this kind of backlash. The bigger problem is you canít have too much of a mismatch showcase when you are fighting twice a year. Fighters have their legion of fans who wait on their ring appearances. When you wait on the average of 6 months for a Salka type it can be a letdown. But Danny is an ambitious kid I suspect he will go for a much tougher challenge in his next fight.
Peterson did his thing. That was a good solid performance. Iím looking forward to Garcia vs Peterson but I donít think itís going to happen. My gut tells me Danny will fight a bigger fight. But who knows I think it would be crowd pleasing.
Jared Fletcher is the Australian that you speak of. Letís just say he wasnít very talented. I donít know how he was ranked so high. Danny Jacobs has a great story and I really like him. But he has to fight real fights now that heís champion. Heís had a succession of less than stellar opposition since his comeback. When you are the champion you have to be adaptable to all styles and available to all contenders. Iím glad he called out Peter Quillen thatís a step in the right direction. I like that fight a lot. But I want to add this. You guys write into me about Golovkin. Do you see how difficult it is for him to get fights in his division? Boxers in his division donít even mention his name. Heís the real boogeyman in boxing right now. Anybody who thinks different doesnít know any better.
The only ďtheyĒ can get top middleweights contenders in the ring with GGG at this point is either over pay by double their market value or offer them extra fights if they go in against Good Boy. Did you notice how Matthew Macklin was able to get back on HBO after GGG demolished him? Macklin had a smart deal maker.
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