DAILY BREAD THURSDAY EDITION: (3-6-14)
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
I wrote about Vasyl Lomachenko a week ago or so, but it didn't make the mailbag. Anyway, HBO made it extremely obvious that they were banking on this kid just as much as Top Rank, to come in and either destroy or dominate Orlando Salido and instantly become the next big thing. The frustration of the HBO announcers (except for Roy Jones) when that didn;t happen [Salido won by split decision] was ridiculously obvious. I like Lomachenko and I wish him success in his career, but you get what you ask for and you get it cause you ask for it. First of all, the pros are not the amateurs. There is a reason guys don't fight for titles with only one or seven pro fights
and Lomachenko learned that tonight.
Giving him a title shot so soon was just straight up disrespectful to the sport and to all the fighters who work for YEARS to earn it. F*ck HBO and here's why. First of all, they are trying to trick the common fan into thinking Salido made no attempt to make weight, like he didn't cut weight. This guy was 147 tonight which means he probably walks around at least 155. He may not have made 126 but what they failed to mention is that he probably had to kill himself just to get down to 128! I think Roy may have said something along those lines but only after like 30 minutes of Jim Lampley and Max Kellerman babbling about how he came in heavy. They made it sound like it was his advantage all night but I would rather be healthy and weigh less than my opponent, than weigh more but have to drain myself and then rehydrate 19 pounds overnight. That was not a 100% healthy Salido. So anyway I think it hurt him more than it helped him and Salido would have won even more convincingly had he not struggled to get down in weight.
Which brings me to my next observation. I have heard people say Lomachenko could beat Mikey Garcia. After what I saw tonight, Garcia murders this kid. Same goes for Guillermo Rigondeaux and even Nonito Donaire. Maybe a year from now he could compete with those guys and even then he's ahead of the game and it's impressiv e. He's a talented kid with a bright future but you have to work your way up. Which brings me to my last point. I'm glad he lost and even more so after hearing that he asked Bob Arum for a title fight in his pro debut! He wants sh*t handed to him because he was a great amateur? Ishe Smith worked his ass off for 13 years, beat some good, undefeated fighters, went through all the bullshit between promotional issues, TV, being forced to fight at a higher weight, being robbed in fights, inactivity, watching his prime pass him by, all before getting a title shot. [Editor's note: Lomachenko won two Olympic gold medalists and is considered one of the greatest boxers of all time. No disrespect to Ishe Smith, a former IBF champion with excellent skills, but Smith never even made it to the Olympics].
James Kirkland STILL hasn't gotten a title shot (which you have pointed out)! These guys all have to work their asses off for years as pros and EARN a title shot. This kid wanted shit on a silver platter? Piss off. Get your ass to the back of the line and earn it like everyone else. Also, I recall plenty of people bitching when Rigondeaux was getting a title shot in "only" his 11th fight. Where we re all these people now? Instead, everybody jumped on the bandwagon. I'm white, but I call bullshit when I see it if you know what I mean.. Lastly f*ck HBO again for trying to get Lomachenko to make excuses. Max was visibly frustrated and annoyed that he wasn't taking 'the bait' as he called it. Lomachenko was classy in defeat, I respect that. I don't dislike Lomachenko, I actually like him. But I wanna see him earn it like everyone else has to. --B from NY
Breadís Response: Glad you wrote in. I will touch on all of the Lomanchenko hoopla. The fight itself went opposite the way I thought. Lomanchenko did better later than earlier. It was almost as if he was getting his experience as the fight was going on. I think if ďtheyĒ offered Salido a shit load of money and fought an immediate rematch. I believe Lomanchenko would start earlier, learn from his mistakes and beat Salido. But there is No way Lomanchenko deserved a title shot, there is no way you can justify it. But I wasnít terribly offended by it because of his pedigree and obvious fighting ability. And yes youíre right. People complained about Rigondeaux getting a title shot after 11 pro fights but they didnít complain about Lomanchenko getting one after one [or seven pro fights]. Whatís even more interesting is Rigondeaux fought some tough fights to get his title shot including a 12 rounder. He also was the mandatory to Rico Ramos. Lomanchenko did no such thing, but oh well. Iím personally not going to complain that Lomanchenko took that risk when a guy like Gary Russell has over 20 fights and doesnít seem to want a title shot. If I remember correctly he had a shot lined up vs Billy Dib.... At least Lomanchenko is ambitious.
The fights itself showed me a lot of things. One is Salido is one hell of a dog. He looks slow but he has great timing. He also punches into areas of the body that a fighter canít move away from. He punches into your whole body where youíre kind of forced to absorb the blow even if you block it. His overhand right is an enigma. Itís slow but itís so effective. Lomanchenko paced himself too much because of the 12 round distance. He just wasnít sure. Because of this he gave up too many rounds early on.
It was just that simple. His output was low early because he wanted to make sure he had something left late. Experience. Although I think Lomanchenko would beat Salido in a rematch I think he still needs experience. If they keep matching him like this heís going to lose some more fights. I can see his record after 10 fights being like 6-4 if he keeps being matched like this.
Even great fighters take lumps at the top level. Guys like Marquez and Hopkins have lost 5 or 6 fighting top level guys. But they have 50 other fights to back their record up.
I donít care what anybody says Lomanchenko does not want to be 6-4. They can fast track him but he needs to go through some levels of progression. Similar to what Rigo did. Just keep him busy with top 15 caliber guys in 8 and 10 rounders for about 8 or 9 fights. If that happens he should be ok. If not I expect more slip ups. Top level styles are difficult and 3 round amateur fights does not fertilize your skills to a point where you donít need the experience in the pros before a title shot.
I think Arum favors Lomanchenko over Rigondeaux and itís painfully obvious. Guillermo Rigondeaux could be the most talented fighter Arum ever had and he canít figure out a way to promote him so he insults him. What he has done to Rigo has been a travesty in modern boxing. Promote his perfection Mr. Arum. When Rigo beat Donaire, Arum insulted Rigo about not being a draw. When Lomanchenko lost to Salido, Mr. Arum made excuses about the ref. One day Rigo will get his just due.
What's up Bread?
I just wanted to get your thoughts on the fights this past weekend. Do you think Lomachenko was gun-shy throughout the fight because of how difficult it is to go "12 rounds under the gun" as you put it? Were the low blows a huge factor? What about the weight difference?
I expected Salido to have success with his body work and looping shots (especially as the fight progressed) but I was very impressed with his defense. Please break down what Salido did defensively to avoid getting lit up (until the 12th round).
William in West PalmBreadís Response: I donít think Lomanchenko was gun shy I think he was hesitant not to burn too much energy. He seems to be physically tough, he took some big shots. The real problem was why they let Salido come in so high the day of the fight. If he didnít make weight he should not have been allowed to rehydrate so high. The weight a fighter fights at is much more important than what he weighs on the scales 36 hours earlier. I would have made Salido come in at 135. How can he complain when he didnít make weight on the scales? Yes I believe the weight played a factor, not sure how much but it played one. If Salido could have made weight he would have but he wanted every advantage, he didnít take this fight on short notice, he had time to make weight.
Salido just kept Lomanchenko on the defensive. I pointed out last week that Lomanchenko didnít roll punches, he blocks them or he scampers away. A loaded up puncher like Salido you have to make him miss because when he misses he will fall off balance. Lomanchenko absorbed too many shots to the head and body and it kept him handcuffed because itís hard to punch back when youíre bracing yourself for that heavy incoming.
This is for my fellow boxing fanatics. We all know that from 154 lb down nobody beats Floyd. But guys there's a kid at 154 lb by the name of Erislandy Lara. This kid doesn't get the recognition he truly deserves. Believe me when I tell you "that from 154 lb down, Floyd is the only man that can beat him." My top 5 P4P fighters:
#1 Floyd Mayweather, 147-154 lb
#2 Guillermo Rigondeaux, 122 lb
#3 Andre Ward, 168 lb
#4 Erislandy Lara, 154 lb
#5 Gennady Golovkin, 154 lb
Guys if you have never seen Erislandy Lara fight you are certainly missing out. He offered Canelo Alvarez a 30-70 split just to get him in the ring. Canelo declined the offer of course and is fighting the same man that Lara just beat by KO (Alfredo Angulo). Guys keep your eyes open for this kid Erislandy Lara, he's a beast!Breadís Response: Floyd is the best fighter p4p but Iím not sure he beats everyone at 154. He has to do that for me I canít assume it.
Lara is a beast but heís not the #4 p4p fighter in the world. He had life and death with a past it Angulo and got a gift draw vs Carlos Molina that no one seems to remember. I love Lara, I think heís a great fighter but those things happened bro. He has to do more to erase them in my opinion. We shall see. I say Lara is top 15ish but no way top 4.
Was up bread how's everything?
A while back before Marcos Maidana fought Devon Alexander I picked Maidana to beat him down as I didn't think Alexander could handle the pressure seeing how he behaved in the Tim Bradley fight as well as the Lucas Mathysse fight. Even wrote to you saying Maidana could even possibly beat Floyd Mayweather. After the fight I wrote back saying boy was I wrong.
Now I'm starting to think could this be Jake Lamotta beating Ray Robinson (in their first fight) or Roberto Duran beating Ray Leonard (also in their first fight)? of course those 2 fighters were on a different level especially Duran but not only that we got Floyd at 37 now he's not what he was at 30. We've seen countless times where a older tactical or slick fighter gets pushed to the brink or out worked or even stopped by a younger pressure fighter. i.e. Hatton vs Tyszu, Trinidad vs Whitaker, De La Hoya vs Pacquiao. You could go on and on. Now I may be off but I know people are saying Maidana caught lighting in a bottle with Broner but he was not a proven welterweight. So I don't take that into account. However I do see a style anomaly that could give Floyd problems in at least one fight Maidana fights with no respect and hits you wherever he can arms, elbows , leg , back, back of head. He'll shoot the right straight or loop it over hand to the top of the head. A while back some one asked SRL why do people lose to Mayweather and what he would do? SRL smiled and said " most people try to hit him on the chin. With that defense it's hard to hit him clean on the chin because the chin is tucked behind the shoulder and the left hook is blocked the right glove . I would aim for the top of his head and loop the right hand. " Mosley hurt him with that same shot twice. I might be wrong but I'm going to go with Maidana in the first fight ala lamotta vs SRR. but Mayweather comes back in September to beat the breaks off him in the rematch. Hell Floyd might even get nod in a close fight but I see the public demanding a rematch.
Have a good one bread and congrats on Jrocks next winBreadís Response: I had to post this, if Maidana wins this fight you get FULL credit. I hear what youíre saying and you never know how a fight plays out.I actually think you make some good points. Maidanaís right hand is perfect for the shoulder roll. He throws it from a beautiful angle. Had he hit Broner super clean with that shot he would have knocked him out cold. He also hits everything. He doesnít wait on the perfect shot and heís riding high. But I still think his stamina is questionable and he doesnít like body punches. If he was sured up in those areas an upset would be more likely but Floyd is going to go to his body and take him into deep waters. I just want to see a good fightÖÖ
What's up bread quick question... I attend a few fights now and then how do I get into the weigh-in?Breadís Response: Go to the city of the fight the day before. The weigh-ins are usually held at the venue of the fight or the hotel where the fighters are staying. Weigh-ins are usually free. Contact whoever is promoting the event. Itís not difficult at all to get in a weigh in, and often they are open to the public.
Brotha Bread what's good? Its been a minute but I've just got a quick question that I've been wondering about in regards to Floyd. I'm always hearing fighters saying they've got the answer for the shoulder roll, so my question for you is this, are guys preparing to fight Floyd or are guys preparing to fight Floyd's STYLE? I'm curious to get your input on this. Keep doing your thing Bread. Amac. Cali.Breadís Response: Thatís a great question. I canít really answer it but I will say that all some guys talk about is Floydís shoulder roll. I donít really like statistics in boxing but I would love to see a stat that shows how often Floyd actually is in the shoulder roll stance throughout a 36 minute fight.
Floyd has so many facets to his game. He has a great jab. He has a great counter and lead left hook. A great counter and lead right hand. Heís extremely strong. Heís a great infighter. And his defense is great with or without the shoulder roll. To focus on the shoulder roll solely is a mistake.
I personally think that in order to be successful against Floyd is to chart how he reacts to different things in a ring. For example what does he do when an opponent jabs him. What does he do when an opponent double jabs him. What does he do when an opponent goes to his body? What does he do when an opponent makes him lead? And so on. Once you can predict a fighterís tendencies then you will be able to properly solve them. Floyd is such a quick thinker and he can fight at so many different rhythms that beating him is extremely difficult. Especially in this era.
Just read your interview on Fighthype. That's a perfect description of J Rocks style. Bread you are one of the realist guys in the game. I'm constantly impressed with how honest, real and up front you are. It's truly refreshing and I always wish you did more interviews and mailbags because I could read and hear you talk Boxing everyday if I could. A few random questions for the mailbag if I may..
1) How do you feel about fighters bringing in other trainers/corner men? For example, Jean Pascal brought in Roy Jones for his last fight against Bute. Roy did a lot of talking in the corner and while I respect Roy (he's my favorite fighter) I can't help but to think he might be stepping on the trainers feet a little by talking too much. I don't know, maybe he did maybe he didn't. But I'm sure it happens at some point when you bring in another set of eyes. How would you take it if one of your fighters asked to bring someone else in? Would that strike you as your fighter not having full confidence in you?
2) It's interesting man, I'll watch slower, aggressive fighters like Rios, Margarito, Angulo, etc do explosive exercises in training but never use it in the fight. For example, I'll see them do sprints, Box jumps, ladder drills and things of that nature that are supposed to train you to use your fast twitch muscles, but they never try to "explode" with a combination, flurry, or change the gears needed to put that type of training to use. Why do you think that is? Is it because of what you talked about a while back when you said, "A fighter who tries to fight with a different style or do something he's not accustom to doing usually tires quicker than usual?"
3) The Roger Mayweather style of mittwork. I see so many trainers using it these days. It's fancy, it's the "IN" thing, and it's a great workout to burn out the shoulders. I don't want to say people are biting his style because I think it's great to learn from other people. My issue with it is that I see fighters and trainers that only do that style of mittwork. What happend to the old school way of holding the mitts?! Floyd Jr does it Rogers way and it works for him, but I think he understands it's "place". I'm convinced the old school way of holding the mitts (actually simulating the fight) is the best way. With all that being said, I'm seeing that we're having more "mitt men" in the sport than actual good coaches. I've heard trainers brag about how great they are on the mitts and how their mitt work is the best.. to me, that's silly. Why do you think being a mitt man has become so much more popular than being a great Boxing Coach (Nazim Richardson, Cus D'Amato, Freddy Roach, Virgil Hunter, You, Buddy McGirt, the list goes on)? I'd rather have someone who was able to correct my game from the corner than someone who can play patty cake with me for an hour (if I had to choose).
I hope all is well Bread. Once again, thanks for wealth of knowledge. I can't speak for anyone else, but it does wonders for me. Breadís Response: It would all depend on the fighter and the situation but at all times itís important to remain professional and not let your ego get the best of view. About 2 years ago we were going to fight a Shobox opener in California. Julian wanted a face in the corner that the California judges were familiar with so he asked me to get Virgil Hunter to be in the corner. I didnít mind at all.
But that is a little different than someone else coming in a training your boxer. If I felt we didnít need the extra part I would just gracefully step away and let the fighter train with whoever he thought could get the job done. If I liked the idea I would go along with it. Itís really a case by case type of thing.
I think Roy Jones is great for Pascal. They have similar body types and attributes. The problem is Pascal was being coached by guys who donít understand his rhythm. You can see the difference Roy makes. When a fighter like Pascal gets that urban rhythm to his game he becomes much better. The same thing happened for Adonis Stevenson. Pascalís trainers have to accept that.
I have been on the other side and asked to come in help out a fighter who already had a trainer. Sometimes it has worked and sometimes it didnít. It really depends on the ego of the coaches and how considerate everyone is to each other.
I really donít know about the explosive comment. They could be becoming more explosive but itís just not that noticeable. Speed comes in many ways. They may not change their punch sequences because they are a little faster. Thatís too hard for me to determine.
I think the rise of the ďMitt ManĒ is definitely because of the Mayweathers on TV. But I know Iím in the minority but I think the Mayweather style mitt routine is very helpful to a fighter. Itís not only great for the cardio and hand eye coordination. But when you see the sequence of punches come at you like you practice on the pads over and over, the positive muscle memory will kick in and you will counteract whatís coming at you.
I personally donít know how to do the Mayweather pad routine. But we have our own. And Iím telling you when one of my guys sees a certain sequence of punches the counter exactly how we do it on the routine.
I also think that some guys are just mitt men and they canít teach anything boxing related except a few fancy sounding punches. I know the difference.
The bigger problem is some of these young guys are turned on the fancy mitt routines. So the trainers are forced to do them. The old school trainers who may not have the energy to do them hire a younger guy to do pad work. This then creates a domino effect.
To answer you directly nothing is more important than a fight simulated pad routine. That gets the fighter prepared for what he will see in the fight.
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