DAILY BREAD THURSDAY/FRIDAY EDITION
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
Howís it going? I have been meaning to write in for the longest while (like years) but havenít got around to doing so. I used to write in to Greg when he was going on the mailbag hard and then he sort of lost interest and I sort of lost interest and B-Talk seemed to transition into a strange sort of nothingness.
I still miss it as being a leading news breaking website but I do check it out everyday to see if you have posted a new mailbag. I suspect quite a few folks do it this way now.
Firstly I finally got to see Julian fight when I saw the undercard of Alvarez/Trout fight. I liked what I saw and I thought your instruction was on point. The only thing I would say is Julian at times pulled back a little straightish. Maybe he just wasnít too worried about the other guysí power. But he looks like a prospect and Iím enjoying watching your journey together.
I see the Watson clan was in the ring with Julian after the fight, which means Haymon is interested in him yeah? If so that means he is impressing the right people. I must admit I donít really like seeing the Watsonís parading around the ring, I am old school, I like to see just the fighters and trainers in there. Only the people that have a real reason to be in there. Iím OK with seeing someone like B-Hop loitering around as he has earned the right to be there, but jokers like the Watsonís? (Who always seem to be checking themselves out on the monitors) Yeah, no thanks.
But hey as I say, the Watsons=Haymon so I guess you aint complaining, haha.
Now on to the real reason Iím writing, I donít need this to go in the mailbag or anything and I know you are a busy guy so if you canít get around to a reply I will understand.
I have had a pet theory for a couple of years that I throw around some boxing buddies of mine and the forum I belong to (boxingunfiltered.com) and it doesn't seem to get much love but I know you have spoken about it in your mailbags which is why I wanted to run it past you.
I think Mannyís fight with Margarito took a good few years and several top performances off his fighting career. Nobody seems to see this, all they remember is the one sided beating that Manny dished out but I think this fight effectively ruined Manny as a top fighter. Now not ruined in the sense that he dropped straight off the cliff but definitely a marked decline from that night onwards.
I would go so far as to say if Manny and his team had their time again they would have avoided that Margarito fight. That was a weight class too far. I know you often talk about fighters leaving a piece of themselves in the ring after a certain fight, well I think Manny left a BIG piece of himself in the ring after that fight.
I know you have written at length as to how tough that fight actually was for Manny but I would be interested to know how much of an after-effect you think it has had on Mannyís career. How much do you suspect it took out of him?
I also have a theory about why Don King hired that tax lawyer to defend Mike Tyson at his rape trial but I will leave that for another time!
Oh and I say Floyd Mayweather fights Alvarez the same way he fought Margarito, Williams and of course Pacquiao. He postpones the fight, watches Saul fight other tough guys, eventually lose and then claims a Ďvictoryí over him. Haha.
Floyd looked good on Saturday but then Guerrero was selected to make him look good. Realistically he never stood a chance. From a training perspective it was interesting to note that Senior had Junior training a little less. At Floydís age I think that was a smart move.
For Mannyís next fight I will also be interested to hear what Ariza has to say during camp. Now I know that you are a boxing trainer but from my perspective I think I think Freddie has taught Manny about as much as he can. For this last run I think Manny needs to go full-on with his S&C training, something that Ariza admitted had not happened in the last few camps. What I found most fascinating about it was that Ariza was saying this in interviewsbefore the fights had happened. If I hear him say the same things in the next camp I may just pick Rios based purely on Manny not having the fire anymore.
And lastly I caught your breakdown of the Rigo/Donaire fight and much of the analysis on the dangers that Rigo presented was spot-on. Dude you visibly had a Head V. Heart moment on camera, haha. I could tell your head wanted to roll with Rigo but your heart went with Donaire.
Breadís Response: Thank you. Yes Julian is coming along and yes the right people are interested. God willing he will kick some doors down this year or the next. He works hard and he deserves it.
I agree with your theory about Pacquiao in the Margarito fight. Margarito put a lot into that fight and he was ďreadyĒ. Margarito finds out what you have in your soul. Manny asked to fight Margarito in 8oz gloves and he paid for it dearly. I literally saw Pac trying to stay awake after being hit with a right hand high on the head. People assume that was a one sided fight because it was one sided on the scorecards but it wasnít one sided with the punishment that was given out. Pac almost killed Margarito literally and Margarito cut down some of Pacís prime performances when he was on one of the most destructive runs of recent times.
One more thing about that fight. I said beforehand that Arum does not do Manny any favors. Just think about this. He put him in tough fight after tough fight at 130. Then he brought him up to 147 after being at 135 for one fight. That was a feeding. No one thought Manny would beat Oscar. Then after a few fights they ďgiveĒ him a BS title fight at super welterweight. The title was sort of bogus but the fight itself was real. Margarito had extreme physicality at 147. He was usually bigger and badder than everyone. So TR allows Margarito to come in at 150 and fight an already small welterweight, That was no favor at all. Remember how dizzy Pac sounded during the post fight interview. Oh well he had a great run and it will come to an end soon.
I donít know what Pac needs in his next camp. But I hate how his camp is run. You have Ariza speaking out against Roach. Roach speaking out against Ariza. Neither of them like Koncz and no one trusts Arum. Itís a mess. The worst part is they all talk about it publicly. Pacquiao is not a good leader in that way. If it were me I would tell the team the next one of them that speaks about family business in the streets will be in the streets. Itís absolutely ridiculous. We shall seeÖÖ
Yo Bread what's going on, I'm writing because I'm really disappointed in the lack of coverage after the Mayweather fight. Every other boxing site has multiple articles about Mayweathers win except boxingtalk which only has one press release article. This truly shows boxingtalk.com dislike for Floyd Mayweather. This black American athlete just put on a masterful performance and it's basically crickets on boxingtalk about it. had it been Pacquiao there would have been several articles about what a great performance he put on but since it's Mayweather you have nothing to say about it. i don't even think you did a video prediction like you do most of the other big fights. Then boxingtalk puts up an article headlined as "SHOWTIME TO AIR MARES-DE LEON... AND MAYWEATHER-GUERRERO. " If I'm not mistaking wasn't Mayweather vs Guerrero the main event? There's no explanation of this except you guys just don't like the man. I know your prediction was right but how close you thought the fight would be was way off but after Mayweathers last couple of fights who could've known that he could have the movement and timing that he had Saturday night so you get a pass for that. I say put your dislike for him aside and praise what he does inside the ring because after him what black American boxer will we have to rely on. Do the right thing.
Breadís Response: You are seriously out of line requesting I do the right thing and ďcoverĒ Mayweatherís victory. Have you noticed that I donít cover fights at ALL? I do my mailbag and I write an occasional story.
If you miss my mailbag just say so, but all of the other accusations are unnecessary. What writer do you know besides me that speak out about how hard some black kids have had it like Michael Dallas but other kids like Shawn Estrada who have the same promoter have not been matched nearly as tough? What writers do you know talk about the Muhammad Ali Act and other racially based infractions that occur in boxing? Please donít get me started. Now all of a sudden I need to do the right thing.
Did you ever stop to think that I have a life outside of boxing and I had not done a mailbag in the last week? Maybe I went on vacation because I was in between fights and I needed a break. I didnít know I had to get your permission.
And stop it with the dislike of Floyd Mayweather BS. You same guys say I overrate him and heís not an all time great. I like Floyd Mayweather a lot. I think heís one of the greatest fighters I have ever seen. Remember who wrote the article about him being in the right when he hit Victor Ortiz? Just because I thought he was being a ďHATERĒ when he accused his biggest threat of being a cheater and then tried to discredit all of his accomplishments by spitting out lies to the public, saying ďPacquiao was average up until he was 25 then he became above averageĒ, when in fact Pacquiao was a 3 division champion before his 25th birthday and a top 10 p4p guy. He was actually more accomplished than Floyd at the same age. Just because I addressed these things and didnít take Floydís side on that one particular subject that doesnít mean I dislike him. I disagree with my brother also, but heís still my bro. Stop it!!!!!
After watching Floyd Mayweather's fights, it seems all his opponents repeat the same line: ďhe was a lot harder than I thought.Ē This puzzles me. Is it possible for a fighter to concede that his opponent (Floyd) is an all around superior fighter, but still have the confidence that he has a chance to win? I know itís a crazy question but how can you defeat a monster if you canít first admit that itís a monster.--Russ
Breadís Response: Good question and I really donít know the answer. Conceding someone is better than you is different than conceding they can beat you. I know the difference but most fighters donít. No fighter should ever concede before a fight he canít win. But acknowledging his opponentís greatness without giving him too much respect is actually the proper thing to do. I never understood why fighters are so dismissive of other fighters. Itís just stupid to me but I guess itís just the way some are.
I donít know what to say about the mindset pertaining to Mayweather in particular. But if these guys that go against him are dumb enough to believe he is not special then shame on them. I think itís because heís not overly violent in his fights. Violent offensive fighters like say Tommy Hearns, Gerald McClellan and Mike Tyson always seem to garner more respect from their opponents as a whole. Think about this Andre Ward is the best fighter around 160-168 area. But I will guarantee you more fighters would fight Ward then they would GGG if the pay was the same because of GGGís violence. Feel me? Guerrero now knows skills pays the bills.
I'm writing in about mayweather on the weekend and I thought he looked great again but after the first rd my thinking different. I thought he maybe took a rd and a half to warm up its usually about then he finds his range but to me he did not look as sharpe after that he looked the same old mayweather.
RG clearly was not on his level but who is and after watching mayweather vs Hatton last night mayweathers last few fight have looked easy because Hatton had money working HARD. The pace Hatton fought at and the pressure he put him under was something I have not seen anyone put him under in years and I think that maybe the key to beat mayweather. I know he stood up an beat hattons ass but if someone with a higher skill level with that Intensaty could do very well. Hbo had Hatton up a point after 6 I don't think that was right at all but that's me watching years later after knowing what happend so would love to know what you think.
Thanks Malik from uk
Breadís Response: I donít think itís any one particular style that will trouble him. For example I think the 2000-02 version of Vernon Forest would have given Floyd all he wanted. Forest was 6ft and fought nothing like Hatton. Nor could he imitate Hatton. A fighter just has to fight the right fight within his strong points.
I thought Oscar who gave Floyd his only split decision in his career fought a bad fight although he did well. Oscar was bending over trying to fight a pressure flurry fight and it was not smart. Had Oscar posted up and used his jab and did not try to over pursue and follow Floyd around the ring I think he could have did much better. You could see his size and power made Floyd respect him but he just fought the wrong fight. He showed no patience.
Iím saying that to say pressure fighting is not for everybody. Some guys like Hatton know how to pressure and some guys like Oscar donít pressure well. Oscar should have fought a Vernon Forest type of fight. There is more than one way to skin a catÖÖ
Happy Tuesday morning. Looks like my Thunder are still pushing and trying to get it done. Anyway bro, let me start by saying my prediction for the Floyd/Ghost fight was way off. Robert didnít test him in the way I thought he would. In addition, you said you thought theyíd fight twice, so I think you thought it would be more competitive as well. Moving forward, I remember about a year or so ago, you told us that Top Rank was gonna get Manny beaten. Well, obviously, you were correct cuz heís lost twice since then. Now, heís slated to face Rios in November. Am I the only one that thinks this was a bad choice? It wasnít his first choice but still? Now I know people will say Rios comes straight forward and is the type of fighter Manny likes to square off with but. . . .?!!! LOL, do you really wanna bring a guy back after a brutal knockout and have him face Bam Bam? Iíve seen guys come back from KOs and still be effective but I have not seen many that came back from highlight reel KOs and still be elite. Seems like once a jaw or chin is cracked, in the way that Mannyís was, itís never the same. Sure, heíll overwhelm Rios with speed and power but what happens when Rios checks Mannyís now vulnerable chin? When guys get put to sleep in that fashion their punch resistance decreases. . .does it not? So, what Iím interested in finding out is will Manny be willing to trade and PUNCH WITH Rios like the Manny of old or will he now be tentative? Will he try to box instead of brawl? Scary fight for Manny. Thoughts?
p.s. Boy, Golden St. blew one last night. Definitely showed their youth.
Breadís Response: Man Iím pulling for Stephan Curry and the boys. The kid has a stroke reminiscent of the Breadman only better lol.
I have said it many times over, Manny has had a tough rode. In his first 3 title fights he was brought in as the showcase opponent and he won all 3 fights by ko. They made him fight Barerra a 2nd time when he dominated the first fight. Marquez a 3rd and 4th time when he was already up in the series. If you have to fight A level HOF types multiple times somebody will figure you out. He gets smoked against Tim Bradley and now he has fight Brandon Rios after suffering a brutal ko. No tune ups, no non punchers, straight to a gun. Manny will be the favorite but who knows how he will react after being violently kod like that. We shall see.
What's up Bread?
Floyd went out and did his thing once again. There was a lot of booing going on but I don't understand why. They didn't really think the ghost was going to look any different than ony other opponent right? I'm not really a fan of either man but guerrero just seems ordinary to me. Just a good tough fighter. Big Floyd really tightened up that already spectacular defense. That being said I still don't see floyd facing canelo until he sees that he slows down or someone exposes him first. One more thing I guess since Zab still wants to fight I think Big Floyd would be excellent choice for zab since he not ready for The Breadman!
Breadís Response: Floyd looked fantastic against Guerrero. Brilliant. I hear he cut back a little in his training which may have helped. Once you have taken your body to its fullest, the key to training is to stay in shape. So many guys fall completely out of shape between fights that they lose something and never get it back. Whereas Floyd got into fight shape and just did his thing.
I believe Floyd Sr. is a great trainer. He does a great job. The problem is comes off so abrasive that not everyone can deal with him. If his personality was better he would be the most sought after guy in boxing. But thatís life> someone once told me itís not how good you are, itís how good you are to people.
Hello! I've been a long time fan of boxingtalk.com and I wanted to start off by letting you know how great the site is. I'm writing because I want to know if you can help me out with something. I have a cousin that hasn't been a boxing fan for that long but he acts like he knows everything now. He seriously believes that Mayweather is only behind Ali as being the greatest of all time. I tried to tell him about Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, sweet Pea Whitaker, Chavez, and Hearns going down as better fighters in my eyes. I tried to explain to him that those guys fought the best in their divisions or near their divisions in their primes. They took risks to be great unlike Mayweather. You wrote an excellent article maybe a year ago giving a great breakdown of how Mayweather ducked guys he should've fought at the time but fought the easier fights. Do you happen to keep records on that? If so, can you please email me the link so I can remember how you broken that down and maybe in your words, he will understand instead of believing the hype?
Michael From Texas
Breadís Response: You would have to google it or go on the site and check on the archives, I canít even remember when I wrote it.
Here is the thing about Floyd. I even talked about this on facebook. He gets overrated and underrated by just about everybody. No I donít think he is top 10 type ever or in your buddies case top 2 ever, he has just missed too many people. And if TheNonpareil is correct, then part of his longevity is predicated on him ďmissingĒ real threats consistently. I agree with that just not 100%.
The other side of the coin is Floyd is a bum and canít fight. Thatís false also. Heís brilliant. The more you watch him and if you know what youíre looking at you appreciate the subtleties of his game.
I canít put Floyd in that rare Mt. Rushmore place because I believe you have to be a pioneer to be at that place. Every great fighter has a miss or few, but Floyd has too many in my opinion. Heís just not the kind of guy that will take a fight, where people hold their breath and say whoa. The Corrales fight was big but that was 12 years ago. And there was a whisper that Floyd was sort of forced into that fight also.
Floyd shows all the character in the world once he gets in the ring. But heís just not going to fight that up against it fight. Itís not in his make up and itís not the worst thing in the world. The problem with that is some will say heís the best fighter ever. You canít be the best fighter ever if you are not willing to fight anybody. If you take a look at say the top 15 fighters of all time. They have something in common. None of them give a dam who they fight. They make deals, they donít break deals.
So tell your buddy Floyd is an all time great, a Hall of Fame fighter. But heís not just second to Muhammad Ali. There are a few other guys that you just canít put him ahead of.
Thatís 7 in a row for all of your haters B. You had Mayweather by Dec, Mares on volume and you called Rosado vs Love exactly. I read between the lines when you said you didnít want to make a pick because Rosado could afford a loss. The fight went exactly how I envisioned after I read your analysis and I simply bet it would go the distance. Thanks again by the way who do you like in Broner vs Paulie, and Dawson vs Stevenson?
Breadís Response: Well itís better you say it, lol. Rosado vs Love did go exactly how I thought it would and the person who got the decision was exactly who I thought it would be. I feel really bad for Gabe Rosado but thatís just his fortune. I didnít think it was a stick up type of robbery by watching it with my naked eye and not scoring it. But it was probably 5 rounds apiece with Gabe scoring a knockdown he should have won by 1 point. The judge who had it 97-92 should be investigated. Seriously we need to stop talking about it and start being about it.
Whenever a scorecard is turned in that bad, the judge needs to sit in front of a panel and watch the fight and explain why he scored each round the way he did. He shouldnít be allowed to look at his old scorecard and he should re score the fight in front of the commission. The judge who did that to Gabe had his scorecard filled out alreadyÖ.
Speaking of scorecards, I thought Floyd would beat Guerrero, clean but competitive in a 9-3, 8-4 at worst kind of fight. He shut Guerrero out. The judges screwed Floyd and they over compensated. There is no way that fight was 117-111 or 9 rounds to 3. No EFFING way. Iím extremely upset about that. There should be no such thing as a comparative round in boxing. Either you win or lose a round. Period.
But thank you I have been having a couple of good weeks, since I made the biggest mistake of my life and picked Donaire over Rigondeaux. SheeshÖÖ
I think Broner is just too young and athletic for Malignaggi and my upset special is Stevenson by early brutal ko over Dawson.
Bread I was in Vegas and I went to the fight... This fight struggled to sell.. The day of the weight in, there was still about 2500 tickets left.. The DJ at the weigh In, was screaming there are still tickets left! My buddies were able to buy tickets to the fight for $159.00, off of stub hub on Friday that's below face Value, Face value was $200. saturday morning around 8am, day of the fight I was walking to the sports book and people were lined up at the MGM Grand Garden Arena box office and from what I heard cheapest ticket was being sold for $150. I'll tell you why this fight didn't sell on PPV, it sure wasn't because of Floyd.. However, the damn "All Access sucked!" 24/7 was way better.. Anyways, Where being Mexican American could have helped Guerrero gained fans, it actually hurt guerrero! He has no connection w/ the Mexican Community out here in LA/So Cal, he doesn't speak Spanish, didn't do any interviews w/ the major Latin Networks. I'll tell you like this, a uncle of mine before the fight asked me hey what fight is happening this weekend and I told him Mayweather vs Guerrero and he was like is Guerrero any Good? Lol.. Had no idea who Guerrero was. So this wasn't on Floyd, this was on his opponent for the fight not doing big ppv numbers.. One last thing, i had the opportunity to chop it up w/ some people from the Money Team and other fighters this weekend.. When I mentioned Canelo vs Floyd fight., everyone and I mean Everyone! Said this "Oh Canelo weighed in 172lbs day of the fight, he'll be too big for Floyd" so my guess is, he's not fighting Canelo.. I love Floyd! if he fights the way he did on Saturday, there is no one at 140lbs/147lbs that can beat him.. but there is no one, and I mean no one at 140/147lbs that can bring people in like Canelo! I'm Mexican /American and live in LA.. And let me tell you Canelo is Huge! Huge! Hes all over the Mexican Tabloids, he hangs out w/ the biggest stars, like (Vicente Fernandez, dates some of the hottest women in Mexico) dude is more popular than Marquez! Whoever thinks other wise is straight out hating on Canelo! My guess is Floyd fights Khan next.. I'm a huge fight fan and I'm not huge on that fight.. Khan has all the tools to give Floyd problems.. Thing is he doesn't know how to use them. Also has khan looked like crap against B level fighters most recent fight against Diaz and Molina. Against A Level fighters: Garcia stopped him, lost to Petersen, Survived Maidana.. His signature win was against Paulie Malignaggi?
Breadís Response: Iím glad you wrote in because if I said that people would say I am against Floyd.
Canelo is a real star. I donít care if he has ever been the headline on a PPV or not. The dude is a rock star. His weigh in in San Antonio was unreal. I was there. A whole neighborhood was blocked off. Chicks were throwing their panties over the gates. True story.
But as you said, the whispers around the people in the know is Canelo is too big for Floyd. Plain and simple. The problem with people coming out and saying it on record is you have to remember the build up to Mayweather vs Cotto. Floyd consistently said he wants Cotto to be comfortable at 154 no catchweights. Well Canelo is comfortable at 154 also.
I personally wonít give Floyd grief for not fighting Martinez or GGG, thatís just too much to ask but I would welcome it if he took the chance. But a Canelo fight is not too much in my opinion. Canelo and Floyd are the same height, Floyd has longer arms and Floyd has already said he is fine at 154, he has won a title there twice. He canít ask for a catchweight because of the flack he gives Manny and he canít say Canelo is too big because of his previous statements. I hope it happens but I wonít hold my breath. Floydís 3 biggest makeable fights are Canelo, Broner and Danny Garcia. I say the Philadelphian will get the fight and I believe itís a ďrealĒ fight.
Send questions and comments to: firstname.lastname@example.org