DAILY BREAD WEDNESDAY EDITION 12-5-12
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
The last-time I was actually pumped to watch a fight was Sergio Martinez vs. Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr. To me, the last quarter of 2012 has been a huge let-down. I hope things get better in 2013..
Now to Cotto vs Trout, props to Austin Trout on the win over Miguel Cotto. It was competitive but I think he clearly won by about 4 rounds. I was impressed with his adjustments, punch selection and I love the way he was sitting down on that left hand to the body. Those body shots clearly took something out of Cotto. Now we all want and I believe deserve to see Trout vs Canelo Alvarez next year. Let's hope Golden Boy Promotions makes that fight because that's gonna be a very close one.
As for Cotto, it's time to hang em up, I have to say I'm a big Cotto fan & that run he went on from 140 to 147 prior to the Margarito fight was epic, that seek & destroy, big punching, body snatching terminator was on the loose, that Margarito fight definitely changed him, I don't think we've seen Cotto bring the heat ever since, back to the weekend & seeing the size difference I really think Cotto had no business fighting at 154, he was easily making the weight & came in at 146 vs Clottey & then 145 vs pacman in his last 2 fights in that division, he basically got run out the division by pacman & had knowhere really to go but up after that beating.
Let's hope he hangs em up because judging by the build-up shows & his performance the hunger is gone, when a fighter starts talking retirement & wanting to be a good father it's time to get out, although I can't see this happening I hope he at least moves back down to 147 where the guys are his own size.-- amar, UK
Bread’s Response: Here is the thing. Team Cotto took one fight too many. They decided to fight Austin Trout and did not accept the Manny Pacquaio rematch at 150. I don’t ever blast Cotto but this seemed odd to me. Cotto claimed that Pacquiao wanted to weight drain him, but yet he wanted the Antonio Margarito rematch to be at 150. This is documented by the way. So I thought to myself this makes no sense. He can fight Pacquiao for much more money on BIG PPV, instead he fights a young, undefeated southpaw. Oh well.
Now I was picking Cotto to beat Trout but the money difference in the two fights has to be big. You also have to realize that the WHOLE Mayweather-Cotto promotion angle was to dismiss Cotto’s prior two losses. Margarito (handwrap), Pacquiao weight (145). I say this to say that I never believed Cotto was weight drained when he fought Pacquiao. He’s 5’7 and he’s not a particularly ripped fighter at 147.
I thought he left the division because of what Pacquaio did to him. Emanuel Steward even admitted that Cotto gets to 151 in camp and has to eat his way back up 154. Long story short, Cotto can’t go back to 147 now after all the excuses and propaganda. He is now forced to fight bigger stronger fighters at 154 to save face.
I picked Canelo before this fight to beat Cotto, and I’m picking him now. I still think Cotto and Canelo will fight @154.
Austin Trout and Miguel Cotto: Hope you're well. What were your final thoughts on the Trout-Cotto fight? How much does Cotto have left in him? Where do you see Trout fitting in to the junior middleweight division? How does he fare against Canelo, Mayweather, Molina, Kirkland, Angulo, Lara and Vanes?
Kelly Pavlik and Jermain Taylor: Kelly Pavlik and Jermain Taylor were the middleweight champions of yesteryear and now they're both being fed to prime champions. Hopefully, they're getting paid well.
Will you explain how Andre Ward is the perfect fight for Pavlik? I've read in your mailbags that the jump from 160 to 168 may be the biggest jump in boxing. Pavlik hasn't looked at all dominant since he made that jump. At middleweight, his physicality and length were difficult to deal with. At super middleweight, he doesn't have those same advantages. I'm not saying Pavlik is shot, although there are many people out there who claim that. He might still be good enough to beat an Arthur Arbaham-Robert Stieglitz type. He might even win a round or two against Froch, and he has a puncher's chance against Bute. However, the creme de la creme of the division? Andre Ward. It's almost silly.
There is nothing compelling about Ward vs. Pavlik, other than Arreola vs. Stiverne on the undercard. Hats off to Dan Goosen because he successfully secured Ward a light touch, while getting paid HBO $. As big of Pavlik fans as we might be, let's be honest, Pavlik doesn't stand a chance in hell at winning this fight, unless Ward decides to not train for the next two months, and even then...
Therefore, I'm not sold at all on this fight. To me, this looks like Pavlik is 100% cashing out and that it's a showcase fight for Ward, much like Donaire-Arce. This is not to say that Ward doesn't deserve a soft touch, because he's a champion who has been in with the best, but that doesn't mean it's a compelling fight.
Putting Jermain Taylor in against Peter Quillin also makes little sense to me too, at least from Taylor's point of view, unless Jermain is cashing out. If that isn't the case, I don't get it. Do you see Jermain Taylor having a chance at beating Peter Quillin?
Bread’s Response: I think Austin Trout is one of those well rounded fighters who you HAVE to see him in there with elite fighters to judge him correctly, because he is not offensively dynamic, in showcase fights against Delvin Rodriguez he won’t wow anybody. Trout will hold his own with anybody while in his prime. Winky Wright, Mike McCallum type. Maybe not as good as them but you know what I mean.
Andre Ward is a good fight for Pavlik because Ward is an American my friend. Pavlik won’t be forced to go overseas in a BIG fight by fighting Ward. Because Pavlik is not champ anymore all of those others guys would force him to come to them. It’s extremely difficult to fight in other countries, diet, jag lag, training etc. It’s just a nightmare.
Also if Pavlik is going to lose, why not lose to the best. If he holds his own, he can use the comparative that he did better than some of the guys in the Super 6 did against Ward. Ward dominated everybody except Sakio Bika. Carl Froch did pretty good in the last couple of rounds. Other than that he white washed them boys.
Pavlik wants the best and he believes in himself. Why not go out here in America on HBO and prove it? I think he will lose but heck he would probably lose to ALL of the champs at 168.
As for Taylor/Quillen you have to understand the business. Most new champions defend in their first couple of defenses against popular past it champs. Of course Taylor needs the money. But that’s boxing. Here is the thing Taylor made his bones by winning the middleweight title. He never got a chance to win the middleweight title back. His tries came at super middleweight. So Taylor gets to make some money one last time. I am not appalled by the fight. Taylor will not be anybodies mandatory, he’s getting older and Peter Quillen is hot right now. It’s boxing. You have two fighters who are past it but still have big names who are challenging young champions.
To answer you exactly… I think Ward vs Pavlik will be onesided but competitive in Ward’s favor. Pavlik is a really good infighter and he has a nasty uppercut and left hook to the body. I see him doing well in spots but losing wide. He also takes a good punch so he could hang in there some rounds.
I see Quillen knocking Jermaine Taylor out cold within 4 or 5 rounds tops, but heck I’ve been wrong before. Every fighter has a MAN’s chance to win a fight if it’s his night. We shall see.
I had to write you when I seen Gennady Golovkin vs Gabe Rosado was official . I know that you personally know Gabe Rosado. He's on a hotstreak . This is going to be an all out war. I'm sure he knows what he has to do, take this Golovkin guy to some very dark places he's never been before. Golovkin is a fast starter , I think if Gabe can get past the first 3-5 rounds he can start to impose his will and maybe stop him. Orlando Salido vs Mikey Garcia should be a real good fight as well. Salido is another example of a fighter with limited skills who can just muck up a fight and get inside and negate his opponents advantages in speed and talent. What he did vs JML twice was awesome to watch. He's just the ultimate mexican dog fighter who's willing to do everything(including cheat) to win a fight. A nightmare opponent. Garcia is a good talented fighter but he likes to fight at his own pace and control tempo . Against Salido I don't think he's gonna be able to do that. I'm not calling an upset just yet but Salido is a badass and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he won.
I'll give Austin Trout credit he looked good. I didn't think much of him before the fight. He showed he is a legit contender at 154. With all that being said, Canelo would knock him out if that fight goes through. Cotto needs to retire. One fairwell fight in Puerto Rico and call it a day. His punches just have none of the snap and power that they use to have. He just can't take punishment no more. You can see it in his eyes and in his face, VS a more aggressive fighter like a Canelo, Chavez jr or even James Kirkland he would get hurt bad. I know styles make fights and I know Cotto was more "UP" to fight Floyd but after seeing Trout handle Cotto and remembering how Cotto gave Floyd a good , tough fight.It's no wonder why Floyd don't wanna fight Manny. I'm on the record, Manny will KO Marquez this time around. I think Marquez is slipping a little and gonna have to stand and fight more because his legs are looking a little less bouncy these days.. Manny after coming off that " loss " will fight hungry and more determined than he has in awhile and finally finish off this series in style. Marquez is a tough gritty dude and just might be able to gut his way through 12 rounds but even if that happens I expect a wide clear unanimous decision.
Bread’s Response: I’m happy for Gabe. He’s a tough kid who is daring to be great. Golovkin is viewed as a killer and he may be one, but he’s going to have to prove it to Gabe. I see some things in Golovkin that Gabe can exploit. My only question is does Golovkin punch as hard as they say he does. If Gabe is uncomfortable with his power than Golovkin will have his way. But if Gabe can handle it, I see FOY type of slug fest. We shall see.
I’m a BIG Mikey Garcia fan. He has a subtle brilliance about him similar to Alexis Arguello. I think he will find a way to beat the imposing doggish Salido in a good scrap.
Manny is a really tough style for Floyd or anybody else that does not throw a lot of punches. I read something interesting about Manny in this fight. Chavez Sr. was quoted as saying when Manny thinks and moves from side to side and what not, it doesn’t come natural and it gives Marquez a chance to think. But when he just fights with rage and aggression nobody can deal with that. Chavez Sr. suggested to Alex Ariza to let Manny’s instincts take over. I’ve also been hearing that Buboy , Manny’s trusted assistant has been doing lots of the pad work these days simulating fast rapid fire punches while on the move. If Manny fights like this I expect him to win big also, but it’s so tough to call because he could have slipped to a point where he can’t do that in a real fight.
Whats going on.1st off whats next for Miguel Cotto? Should he retire,or keep fighting? I personally think he should go to 147lbs and take 1 more big fight.He can fight Berto, Tim Bradley or Juan Marquez next summer at yankee stadium.I think they are all winnable fights,PPV worthy and will net Cotto that last big payday.Also what moves do you think Andre Berto will make next? 1st thing he needs to do is get a new trainer.Tony morgan does not tell berto what punches to throw nor does he keep control of the corner very well.All he kept saying last week was "you have to work Andre".Those are not proper instructions.Also how big would a early spring fight at AT&T park in San Franciso be between Nonito Donaire vs Guillermo Rigondeaux and a co-feature of Mercito Gesto vs Yurikis Gambao? How possible is it of this card happening? Would this card be more hyped then the donaire/nishioka and rios/alvarado card? lastly out of all the undefeated prospects and contenders that lost this year ( rico ramos,vernon paris,Lucien Bute,Mike Jones,Chavez jr, Luis Orlando Del Valle,Mike Alvarado,Thomas Dulorme,and Seth Mitchell) which 1 will bounce back the best? And which 1 will never be the same? Peace and keep it coming
Bread’s Response: Don’t know what to say about Berto that hasn’t already been said. I wish the kid the best. I suspect he will make some changes very soon. Too much pressure not to.
Out of all the prospects that lost I expect Luis Del Valle and Mike Alvarado to come back the best. Not saying they will be world champions but they seem to have that inner drive and clarity on their styles that will allow them to compete high again.
What up Bread!
Long time, no write in (Because I refuse to unless there is something significant to post). Sitting here in the middle of having eyegasims of the Ali/Foreman fight and I'm still in TOTAL amazement of how this fight went down although we were children in the 'Rocky' era. Rarely does anyone speak of Ali in your mailbags, so I'm taking the liberty to do so to get your analysis of the sweet science of the G.O.A.T.'S art during his upset wins.
Watching 'The Rumble in The Jungle', I put myself in the minds of those who gave Ali absolutely NO chance of winning (several times mind you) and I'm still more than impressed. Although Ali conceeds to Mr Walker Smith, NEVER have I seen ANYONE in the history of boxing overcome odds the way that the self proclaimed Greatest has. The prefight, the staredown, the FIGHT itself (almost brings me to tears everytime), the postfight even. What fighter have we EVER seen in history take control his own corner to win a fight NO ONE thought he would win in an upset for the biggest prize in sport??? Ali gave us his own breakdown in interviews as if he KNEW what was going to happen all along. Actually in one prefight interview he says "George is gone wear down around 8". WHAT??? However, I'm interested to hear YOUR take on it please.
Also the 1st Liston fight, against one of the longest reaching best jabbers in the history of boxing, he made it an easy night, BLINDED even in a round!!! Can we all get some science on that one also if you will?
And if not too much, how do you score 'The Fight'? My mind says Frazier, but Ali more than held his own as Smokin Joe took more punishment IMO.
Extant in Los Angeles Via Chitown again
Bread’s Response: Talk to me brother! I revere Mr. Ali and I don’t like it when people say a bad word about him. No one is perfect but you talk about a “fighter”. Ok you want a breakdown I’m going into my bag.
Legend has it that Ali waited for Foreman to get tired then he sort of turned it on and caught him, not true. Ali knew his legs were shot after the first Frazier fight. But he “hardened” his body to absorb punishment. By allowing himself to be on the ropes, that helped saved his dying legs and also allowed him to spring off the ropes to counter punch. He’s an absolute genius. You see how he tied Foreman up after he would throw that straight right hand. He broke Foreman down mentally because George had no choice to believe he would destroy Mr. Ali. For he had destroyed Frazier and Norton and Ali struggled with them. The Rumble in the Jungle is the greatest big underdog performance in the history of boxing.
Never has such an all time great been so highly regarded as Foreman, facing another all time great that was assumed past it. Ali’s post fight interview and ring walk still make me cry. He told his folks as he walked the aisle, “what are yall afraid of? I’m the one fighting. Just act like yall believe I will win.”
After the fight he told everybody” to bow down and listen”. He went on a 45 second rant. That is the most emotional I ever seen Ali. Lots of times he did things for fun, but he was dead serious during that speech. His eye even started twitching which is a sign hyper tension is coming on.
You know I had a disagreement with another boxing writer who compared Mayweather’s stance on PEDs, to Ali’s stance on the war. You talk about apples and oranges. SMH. That writer went onto tell me Ali was a horrible person because he cheated on his wives. Come on man! Cheating on your wife is NOT a good thing, but it doesn’t make Ali a horrible person.
I tell Julian Williams to watch Ali all the time. Watch Ali in the 60’s when you want to learn how to control a ring with your feet and movement. When you watch him in the 70s you learn about “character”. No man who has ever walked this earth has more character than Muhammad Ali in a boxing ring. People underestimate his “toughness” because he was a boxer and not a brawler.
He could care less who he fought and when he fought them. For the exception of Foreman, he gave everybody a rematch and sometimes 3rd fight. That says a lot about character.
Liston…. Some say Liston is the most underrated heavyweight who has ever lived. Some believe Ali has the best jab ever, because he outjabbed the best jabber ever. Liston. He controlled Liston with his feet. Liston was “sick” at jabbing at stationary targets. But Ali who wasn’t great technically but had great instincts kept Liston heavy on his front foot.
Meaning Liston was always looking like he was about to get off but couldn’t. He would put pressure on his front foot as if he was about to punch but the opening he thought was there, wasn’t anymore. Look at the fight. Why? Ali kept changing the location of the target. It’s hard to shoot a gun at a moving target. Ali was a 22 yr old kid and a 7 to 1 underdog , fighting at the time a man regarded as at least a top 5 heavyweight ever. Am I talking loud enough for you bro.
As for the Fight, Ali vs Frazier 1, I thought Ali lost that fight, competitive but clean. No doubt, Frazier put on one of the greatest pressure performances ever. But Ali ruined Frazier in that fight. Took his prime away that night. Look at Frazier very next two fights, he couldn’t get back into prime condition anymore. He looked less in shape and he was no where as quick. Look at him close and tell me what you think. I think he fought a guy named Ron Stander after he beat Ali in their first fight.
Mike Tyson once said that Ali was “better” than everybody else because Cus told him Ali had more character than everybody else. When I think about Ali’s character I tell young guys to go the last round of Ali’s fight with Earnie Shavers. Ali “went off” on the hard punching Shavers in the last 30 seconds of that fight. Fatigue makes cowards of everybody except Ali. His courage is incomprehensible.
I have noticed that Ali, Leonard, Jones Jr., Oscar and Pacquiao are the most “hated” on fighters as well as respected by their contemporaries. I once heard Larry Holmes say Ali was overrated. My only response was why even says that if you thought that. Ali will go down as a greater fighter than Holmes….. I hear guys talk about how Jones can’t take a punch but yet he beat the horse shit out of them when he was “right”. I hear guys talk about Oscar wouldn’t fight anybody. But if you look at his resume it’s top20 ever, as far as who he fought and when he fought them. I hear people say how Leonard ducked Pryor or got a gift against Hagler. Both are untrue. Now people talk crap about Manny every which way like he’s a bum. But I’m privy to lots of things. Manny gives up size and weight often. He’s fought on the road as the underdog as a young fighter. I know fighters now that would have turned down most of the fights that have Manny who is today.
I just don’t get it. We should appreciate and accept greatness. It doesn’t come along often. Mr. Ali stands out to me above them all. What a man and what a fighter. I don’t even know how to hate and I’m glad you don’t either.
Bread, what’s up? You still talking about SRL?? Floyd Sr had his moments, he had 3 or 4 good rounds and the stoppage should have occurred in the 8th. That’s how that fight was fought, Leonard would have a good round and then Floyd Sr. would come back in the next round and have a good round. Ray started off slow and won most of the rounds in the 2nd half of the round. Floyd even outjabbed Leonard. Even though Floyd Sr. got hit a lot, some of Leonard’s shots were picked off by the shoulder roll defense. Sr’s main problem was that he had no legs, which affected his punching power cause he did land some shots. At 24 Floyd Sr fought like he had 40 or 50 fights already and looked like an old fighter.
Here’s a fight for you ‘No Doubt’ vs. ‘One Time’!
There is turmoil in the Berto camp but IMO he can turn it around by not trying to be Floyd or a matinee idol but go back to his boxing roots which served him throughout his amateur career. I still say that Morgan should go, but agree with you that Berto should reduce his corner to a, primary second, a real cut man, and a spit bucket holder/Vaseline man. The main man in the corner should insist that everybody keep their mouths shut.
Al Haymon and Dibella made Berto, had him fighting stiffs for too long and then when he had to step up he fell apart. Plus mentally Berto thought he was at Floyd’s level when he wasn’t. It’s back to the drawing board for him.
Andre ‘SOG’ Ward just needs to keep doing what he’s doing he’ll get his PROPS he’s only 28! He’s in his prime and since he hasn’t gotten hit a lot or beaten up, he should be able to parlay that into a long prime and career. Ward is managed by James Prince, who is a few steps behind Al Haymon.
Floyd needs to face Sergio Martinez or Canelo if he’s not going to be fighting Pacquiao. Money needs to realize at 35 boxing is no longer a game, that he needs to seal his legacy and get out before he takes that career ending beating that all of the great ones take at the end of their careers. Guerrero DOES nothing for Mayweather who’s not a young guy where he can keep fighting these types of fights (good money/low recognition). Floyd’s gonna f**k up and get beat by somebody he has no business even fighting.
A lot of the BIG TIME fighters are juicing and now that testing is starting to catch up with the times don’t be surprised if a lot more of these ‘great’ fighters get caught. The NFL is still catching guys and it has stringent testing, so I expect that Pro-boxing that may be just as physically and mentally demand or more has cheaters too.
Bread’s Response: Rob you know Ray Leonard is my guy. But he is from another era long ago. Guys just send questions to me about him and I answer accordingly. I thought the Leonard/Mayweather Sr. was a good fight for an up and coming superstar. I personally don’t take a lot from the fight except Leonard can go about few things a few ways. He can be a discipline type of boxer, but he can revert back to that Ike William/Sandy Saddler type of boxer killer style and just walk through you. I remember Emanuel Steward telling me that Leonard was much nastier and stronger than anybody ever thought. In essence he was a “crazy man” when he had to be. Steward told me Leonard came down to the Kronk and did his thing when he was very young.
I have noticed something about a few of your last comments. You seemed to have a slightly different view on Floyd as you once had. I know he was your guy at one time. Correct me if I’m wrong but that is just my guts.
I love the guy as a fighter. I don’t know him as a person so I don’t get into that. But the convenience of fighting certain fighters over time makes you wonder if the “missing” allegations are true. Everything can’t be a coincidence.
You are correct three fights , do wonders for Floyd’s legacy and quite frankly he doesn’t seem to be in a rush to make any of the fights. I will concede that Martinez is too BIG. At one time I thought Floyd could handle him but not anymore. I think Martinez would knock Floyd out. But heck that’s what greats do, shut us up and make us believe. Floyd fighting Martinez is NO different than Leonard taking on Hagler.
Canelo and Manny are of the size suite. I know the excuses of not fighting Manny but none of that exist with Canelo. Now I’m hearing that Cinco De Mayo is NOT his date of preference and he wants to fight in February. Oh well I think we will see Floyd vs Guerrero or Bradley.
Andre Ward is the man. I don’t know him too well personally but I love his persona. He has a great situation. He has a great teacher in Virgil Hunter, he just shined big on HBO. All he needs is his promoter to “create” viable opponents. I think it can be done. Ward is a HOF right now and I expect him to enter that Miguel Cotto/Prince Hamed tax bracket soon. He may not ever be in the Oscar, Manny, Floyd money flow, but something tells me Ward has “acceptance” and he is happy being Andre
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