DAILY BREAD TUESDAY EDITION 10-30-12
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
Whats going on Bread? IT looks like the WBO is making a mandatory for Brandon Rios vs Ruslan Provodnikov....I don't know about you but I would love to see this fight. I think Rios would win but Provodnikov is no joke and to me seems to be just as much as a danger to Rios as Alvarado was is not more. What do you think? The JWW is such a loaded division that almost any fight is going to be a good fight, with Khan, Marquez, Rios, Peterson, Garcia, Judah, Alvarado, Mathysse, Olusegun, Provodnikov, and Guzman (if in shape). I am probably missing more fighters but I hope the promoters get themselves together and make some of these fights happen. Also, over the weekend Thomas Dulorme got KO'd by the rugged Argentine Carlos Abregu. He is another high profile prospect to get knocked out, not just beaten, alongisde Ismayl Syllakh. Do you think they suffered from getting moved along too fast or is this the type of learning experience that they need? Rob J, RVA
Bread’s Response: Rios vs Provodnikov would be another dog fight, which is Rios’s specialty. Another fan friendly TV fight for Rios.
I wouldn’t say that Dolurme needed to be knocked out. Here is the problem I think in this case. This situation is a little different from Ishmayl Syllahk. I think Syllahk just got caught and he may not have the best chin.
I think Dolurme is suffering from his LANSCAPE. Just like in college athletics you have mid major type of schools, like say an Appalachian State. Then you have Ohio State the BIG time. No offense to Dolurme’s Promoters but they are mid major type with Top Rank and Golden Boy being the big time. Now here is the dynamic.
TR and GB can AFFORD to nurture their talent more. They can afford to “hide” their talent for longer periods of time off of TV or on undercards. Whereas the mid majors jump at the opportunity to get on TV and their guys have to fight tougher fights on the whole. Now I’m not suggesting a guy can’t make it with a mid major Promoter. I happen to think Lou Dibella is a great promoter and the jobs he did with Paulie Malignaggi and Andre Berto were exceptional. If I’m not mistaken Dolurme is Co promoted by Dibella and Gary Shaw.
But the overall landscape dictates something different at this time. Most of these mid major promoters are not going to turn down a major HBO Rights Fee check along with a site fee from a Casino. Follow me….Now what happens is HBO who is “really” the Promoter and matchmaker will only approve a certain type of fighter. So that narrows down the options.
Now if everything was on a level playing field a fight with Dolurme and say a Jesse Vargas would appear to be a 50/50 fight on paper. Two young guys, similar stages…. But TR and GB are not going to put their guys in that fight with Dolurme. Why should they? That in an essence freezes out some of the mid major fighters because they can’t get to “pick” from the expanded litter of fighters that will make them look good.
So Dolurme’s Promoters are forced to find him an “approvable” opponent. In comes Carlos Abregu who has a relationship with Gary Shaw and fought admirably on HBO before against Tim Bradley. Bradley gave Abregu his only loss in a decent fight.
Here is another problem. Dolurme is somehow ranked #1 by the WBC. I think the kid is talented but no way should he be the #1 contender after 16 fights and his best win was against Chop Chop Corley, who had lost like upteen in a row when Dolurme beat him. Talent and upside does not equal accomplishments.
So this kid Dolurme is one fight away from imposing a mandatory against Floyd Mayweather or the winner of Berto/Guerrero. He surely can’t turn down the crude looking Abregu….
Actually Dolurme’s people knew this would be a tough fight and they reportedly wanted Nick Casal who was injured. Dolurme is “better and more talented” than Abregu but that doesn’t mean he can beat him in a fight. That is the biggest problem with matching fighters. They get matched with the “right side of the brain, the imaginary side, instead of the left side the practical side. If you go by what you see in talent then you imagine Dolurme beats Abregu. But if you go by logic, you don’t take the fight just yet.
I’m not saying that I picked Abregu to win because I didn’t. If you would have twisted my arm I would have picked Dolurme although no one asked me and I didn’t make an official pick. But if I were managing Dolurme I wouldn’t have taken that fight. Could you imagine Dolurme fighting Floyd Mayweather for the WBC welterweight title next?
That’s the biggest problem in my opinion. Why was this kid ranked so high?.... Now let me give you some great examples of my overall analogy. Glen Tapia who is handled by Top Rank is also considered a blue chip prospect, although probably not as talented as Dolurme. Tapia also fought this weekend in an off TV 8 rounder against a 13-7 trial horse. Tapia is not ready for the BIG TIME and Top Rank knows it, Tapia has the same number of fights as Dolurme. Therefore they nurture him until they “can’t” any more. Top Rank has another guy in Matt Koroborov. Koroborov was an outstanding amateur. But for some reason he is not setting the world on fire as a pro. Top Rank still hides him on undercards.
I have more. Deontay Wilder is a bronze medalist. He’s 25-0 with 25kos. Most people still haven’t seen him. Why because he was green and still developing. Golden Boy fighter…. Look how many fights Kelly Pavlik had before he became a mandatory. Around 27 or 28 fights. Top Rank…
Because of the landscape and power that TR and GB have, a mid major promoter’s fighter will be put in this situation more often than not. As long as TR and GB are doing “off tv” shows to develop their talent on a “regular” basis this will continue to happen. Why because they want it to happen and they can afford it. They don’t have to match their guys super tough until it’s absolutely necessary and most importantly they are more seasoned. As a whole the TR or GB fighter, will be more active before the y step up and they will have more fights. Remember Luis Del Valle just took his first loss after 16 fights, Jonathon Gonzales just came in 9lbs over and scored a draw and Alex Perez just got stopped. All had around 15 or 16 fights, all fighting for the first time on HBO. All mid major promoters. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. Are you guys still following me……..
In no way am I knocking the mid major guys. Everybody can’t have the revenue stream that TR and GB have. Also some fighters are not talented enough to go to the big guys. What I will say is the mid major guys have to do more “off tv” shows so they can develop their talent more and this will allow them to be controlled by the networks. Dibella has the right idea, I know he does a great show called Broadway Boxing but Lou is one of the few mid majors that does off tv shows on a regular basis. And he still does not do anywhere near as many off tv shows as say a Golden Boy, who runs a ridiculous amount of off tv shows.
One more thing, at the end of the day, Dolurme’s people could have said no. It will be interesting to see how he gets brought back.
Whats good brah.You know its about that time for the annual list.Lets get to it.
!. Who is the hardest puncher in boxing
2. Who is the best puncher in boxing
3. Who has the best chin in boxing
4. Who is the best ring technician in boxing
5. Who is the smartest fighter in boxing
6. Who is the best body puncher in boxing
7. Who is the best at in fight adjustments in the ring
8. Who is the best finisher in boxing
9. Who is the meanest fighter in the game
10.What trainer has the best stable of fighters.Not the best trainer but who has the best stable of fighters
Manny steward r.i.p ( Wlad Klitschko, andy lee, k9 bundrage, gambao) freddie roach ( manny pac, lateef kayode, chavez jr,peter quillen,) robert garcia ( nonito, mickey garcia,maidana,pavlik,) ronnie shields ( edwin rodriquez,jermel charlo,lara landy,yundell johnson,chris arreola) floyd mayweather sr ( mickey bey,mike jones,andre dirrell,victor ortiz).or vrigil hunter ( andre ward, amir khan,mike dallas jr, karim mayfield,angulo,fernando guerrero).lets keep these mailbags coming.
1. Hardest Puncher-Gennady Golovkin
2. Best Puncher-Nonito Donaire
3. Best Chin-Carl Froch
4. Best Technician-Andre Ward
5. Smartest Fighter-Floyd Mayweather
6. Best Body Puncher-Canelo Alvarez
7. Best at infight adjustments-Andre Ward
8. Best Finisher-Adrien Broner
9. Meanest Fighter-Brandon Rios (I would have picked James Kirkland but he’s MIA)
10.Virgil Hunter has the best stable right at this moment. I base that on if you matched his guys with the best guys in their respective divisions his guys would do the best overall. I think Robert Garcia’s stable is second.
What did you think of Manny Steward as a trainer?
Bread’s Response: Manny Steward was what I call a STAMP of a man. You know how if you have an old head in your neighborhood, who says the sky is green. Then the sky is green. If Steward said a fighter was the deal then he was the deal.
I got to meet him once in Atlantic City and we rapped for a good while in the lobby of the casino. My fighter fought on an HBO undercard that Steward was calling. He gave us both his stamp of approval and it meant a lot to me.
I got to pick Steward’s brain and I was very impressed. He uses to simple terms to explain things but you can tell he is intelligent. He told me he was impressed at how we kept the fighter fighting the right fight. We didn’t let him stray in his approach. I also talked with him about other fighters of different eras. What impressed me the most was how highly he thought of Ray Leonard.
For those of you who don’t know, Leonard was the fighter who broke Steward’s heart in his first super fight against Tommy Hearns. Steward had nothing but praise for Leonard. That’s very important to me knowing what I know about boxing. Because in this day and time so many boxing people discredit their adversaries but Steward was just the opposite.
As a trainer I think Steward has to be in the top 2 or 3 to ever live. He has done it all. He has started guys out and built them up (Tommy Hearns). He has taken proven guys and helped them rebound (Lennox Lewis). He has taken guys and changed their styles to win certain fights (Evander Holyfield). He has taken underdogs and upset better fighters (Oliver McCall). He has had over 40 world champions.
In this day and age with all of the haters and negative people, if you don’t cover every aspect someone will discredit you and say well he didn’t do this or that. Well with Steward he has done it all as far as aspects of training. So if he isn’t the best trainer who has ever lived, he is definitely the most accomplished. RIP Mr. Steward, our talk meant a lot to me.
What do you think of the friction between Victor Conte and USADA? I have heard some nasty stuff. Do you have any info or an opinion?
Bread’s Response: Man we are in a sad state. This is the second time someone asked me about this. I honestly don’t know what to think about this beef between Conte and USADA. But here is my opinion and here are some facts that I have researched.
It seems that Conte backs VADA which is ran by Dr. Margaret Goodman. VADA was the organization that caught Lamont Peterson and Andre Berto. As far as I understand VADA cost less than the USADA test and their test is more strict because they are proactive in the testing for synthetic testosterone.
Now Golden Boy seems to back USADA, Which if I’m not mistaken caught Erik Morales. I have no horse in the race but I do have questions for both organizations.
My first question is if I was not a Golden Boy fighter would it make me apprehensive to take a test given by a company that was being used your promoter almost exclusively? I would wonder why if VADA caught Berto and Peterson then why would GB stop using VADA. I would also ask why the USADA test cost more. I think these are reasonable questions.
Now if I was facing a fighter using the VADA like say a Nonito Donaire who seems to be their poster boy. I would ask them can they have integrity because they are closely associated with Victor Conte, who is a part of Donaire’s team. So basically I’m asking if Nonaire came up dirty would VADA post the accurate results and if Canelo came up dirty would USADA post the accurate results. Unfortunately this is what this has come to.
All of these questions are reasonable in my opinion and if I was a fighter who was not affiliated with either group I would become leery. I am a novice on this topic but common sense goes a long way in my book.
I hope and pray that BOTH organizations can work together in the future and that both organizations show the up most integrity.
One more thing I want to touch on the Morales fight. Morales’s last test came back clean and he was allowed to fight. Ok…. Now I’m not saying Morales was lying maybe he did eat contaminated meat. I don’t live in his kitchen. But let’s just sit in Danny Garcia’s shoes. Is it fair that he has to fight a fighter who had a PED in his system while in training? Now just because a guy walks in a ring clean, that doesn’t mean that he didn’t benefit from a PED.
For the most part the PEDs help you recover faster. So therefore if Morales got to train harder and recover faster in camp then in essence he can fight a better fight. Now I know Morales got blasted so people will assume no harm no foul. But I don’t agree with that. I think that these promoters have to be willing to lose money if they are going to test. If a fighter comes back positive at anytime during camp then he shouldn’t be allowed to fight. We have to set precedence.
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