DAILY BREAD THURSDAY EDITION
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
What up Breadman,
Thank God Football is coming back cause my boxing is letting me down. Is Gennady Golovkin v Grzegorz Proksa and Sergiy Dzinzinruk v Jonathan Gonzalez the best HBO could come up with for Boxing After Dark? Is HBO trying to penetrate the European market? Do any of these fighters have relationships with Golden Boy? Is Ken Hershman trying to turn HBO boxing into Showtime Boxing? If the answer to the above questions are "No" then why is HBO giving a prized HBO main event slot to a couple of guys who may be very talented fighters but do nothing to increase HBO subscriptions in the US, I can't pronounce these dudes names much less know who they are. Isn't there enough outsourcing of American jobs to foreign countries HBO doesn't need to add to the problem. With that being said, Showtime is showing the Randall Bailey v Devon Alexander title fight the following week. If you had to choose between watching the Foreign invasion fight this week or Bailey v Alexander which one would you watch live and why??
Strictly from a quality of fight and interest level stand point. Also, how much is HBO paying for this weekends fight and would it be enough to get the Bailey v Alexander fight. I'm guessing it would be so why would they pay big money for a fight not many people want to see when one of there former stars is coming off a great win over a former champion in an action packed fight and he would be fighting an opponent who is a champion who had a one punch KO in his last fight to become champion again after a 10 plus year gap. Could they not have bought the better fight that happens to be to Americans?? Is there a 1 all back main event limit per month and Ward and Dawson have filled this month quota?? Any salesman worth his salt could sell this fight for the story lines alone. No wonder people say boxing is dead no other major sport would fill a prime time spot with little known teams from Europe. Can you imagine the NBA on TNT featuring a game between Lithuania v Spain, or The NFL giving a Sunday night game to The Winnipeg Blue Bombers v Toronto Argonautis this is ridiculous. I'm gone watch the fights cause I'm a boxing junkie, but man I may need to find me a new drug do I have a legitimate beef or am I just Jonesing for a Pacquio v Mayweather
Breadís Response: Here is the thing. You have a right to feel the way you feel but itís not entirely HBOís fault. Golden Boy and Top Rank canít monopolize the NETWORK. They already get most of the dates because they have most of the top fighters. So itís up to the promoters of this show to put on the best fight they can. I agree with your point it would have been more intriguing if they would have matched Golovkin with a recognizable face to the American audience but this is how the ball bounces sometimes. You also have to take into consideration that the promoters of this show may not have recognizable faces in their stables. I know they arenít going to turn a date down because they donít have the faces we are used to. Itís a catch 22. But you can see why Golden Boy and Top Rank are sort of the Big Dogs on the block.
Whatís more intriguing to me is why HBO didnít pick up the Alexander/Bailey fight. Bailey just destroyed Mike Jones on the PAcquiao/Bradley undercard at least 900k people saw that KO. Alexander has been on HBO about 5 times and they have attempted to make him a starÖ Iím assuming Showtime cut a larger check but that one is very curious to me. Alexander is with Golden Boy and Al Haymon and they simply go to where the money is.
Relax though bro, boxing is not dead and it wonít die. Boxing need a makeover but thatís far from the needing a casket.
Dear Mr. Breadman:
As always I want to first commend you for the great job you and your fellow colleagues do at Boxingtalk. More than likely my question will not make the mailbag. However, I will greatly appreciate a response to the following. Is Tito Trinidad, in your opinion, a great ďwelterweightĒ in his era or all time ďwelterweightĒ great. I think boxing fans forget that as a welterweight he fought the best in his division and beat the crap out of all of them. Never ducked no one. Had 14 straight defenses of his IBF championship belt. Too bad he didnít stay at junior middleweight and decided to go to middleweight. I thought that as a junior middleweight no one in boxing could have beaten him. I know you are a Tito fan and would love you read your opinion on the subject. As a side note, I truly believe that Tito did better than Oscar in common opponents during their stints at 147 and 154. The only common opponent that Oscar fought before Tito did, if I recall correctly, was Sweet Pea. Other than him Oscar fought fighters that were destroyed by Tito first. (i.e. Oba Carr, Yori Boy Campas, Fernando Vargas)
Breadís Response: I consider Tito somewhere on the bottom half of the all time great welterweights. In my opinion welterweight is the best division in the history of boxing so itís tough to crack all time great in that division but Tito may be top fifteenish. His run was BIG time, but the gift he received against Oscar hurts him slightly.
As you know Iím a huge Tito fan, but I have to call it clean. Tito, Ike Quartey and Pernell Whitaker were all champions at the same time for about 4 or 5 years. Tito should have unified or at least tried to unify the division. Some people still feel a prime Quartey and Whitaker around the time he beat Buddy McGirt would have beat him. We will never know. All in all, Tito had a great run and plenty of longevity in the division, but a victory over Quartey or Whitaker would push him over the top. I rate him as all time welter but it does hurt that his most significant victory at the weight is viewed as a robbery or gift. Oh well, he was still a great fighter in my eyes and one of the best pressure fighters of the last 20 years. I rate him right behind PAcquiao and Chavez in that department.
I have never seen Andre Ward fight from outside. He does have a strong jab from outside but as far as experience, I have Chad Dawson ahead of him by three points. Ward doesn't have a lot of championship rounds under him. Dawson does, and his experience will catch Ward in the late rounds. I predict Dawson will win by unanimous decsion. Watch the Ward vs. Carl Froch fight. Ward faded in the late rounds and Dawson wonít allow Ward to smother him.
Breadís Response: Actually Ward has 7 fights that went to the championship rounds (past round 10). Dawson has 10. I think you overrate Dawsonís experience over Ward. They are about equal in opposition faced. Dawson may have a slight edge because of the underrated win over Tomasz Adamek but itís not overwhelming.
I was present for Ward vs Froch and you have a point. Ward did look tired at the end of the fight. But you have to take into consideration his injury. His LEAD hand was broken. I think when he realized he was winning he stepped off the gas slightly which is understandable. Froch was also punching him in the back of his brain stem. That will wear anybody out. Iím giving Ward a slight pass on his gas tank in that fight because that was the first time he has showed signs of slowing down and it probably wasnít a coincidence that his hand was broken in the fight.
Bread n Butta wuduuup. My bad I havnt been hitting you up lately man. Things get hectic, but you already know.
I was recently on youtube watching some boxing vids and came across a lennox lewis greatest hits page, and there were so many cats on there dissin the man. There was a continuous referrence to a comment thbat bert sugar made about him being only the 18th greatest heavyweight of all time. Now before I say what I say I want you to know that I have nothing but the utmost respect for bert sugar (rip), and I will openely acknowledge his credibility and longterm dedication to the sport. But, it was his opinion and in no way is the end all to determine a fighters greatness. With that being said I do agree that lennox is far from the greatest hw as far as from a historically signifigant stand point. He was so aloof and standoffish, rarely if ever made any controversial comments, and to say it plainly I really feel like the british accentalso contributed to turning aloot of people off. Especially in the US, but i'm not sure if he's as low as 18th. Jack johnson is my #1 but that's another topic for another day.
I actually wasn't always a fan of lennox's. Being from the dmv I was actually a big riddick bowe fan. I even met him shortly after his win over evander in their 1st fight. So naturally everytime lennox fought I rooted against him, but being from dc bowe lost my respect with the whole trash can incident. It would have been a totally different thing if he did it to devalue the wbc and still fought lennox, but it was an obvious duck move. After that I still didn't like lennox but I could now view him from an unbiased perspective and he really started growing on me. He gained my respect for his big win over ruddock and for going toe to toe with mercer when he probably didn't have to. And even after the mccall debacle(which I thought was an early stoppage) he came back and beat the man. He would go on to defeat all of the best avaiilable competition while being ducked by the bigger names for some time. And then there was the holyfield robbery...and after seeing him deal with the adversity he did I became a fan.
So my question to you bread is who would you favor to defeat lennox in the ring. Its a little tricky for me because the 1st obstacle is when was lennox's prime. I feel like the younger more aggressive lennox would have done better against some fighters, while the older more strategic lennox would have done better against others. But with his size and athleticism I only think a prime, pre banned from boxing ali is the only one i'd bet to beat him...head be the only one who could take advantage of how he crosses his feet when he moves to his left. I know your big on foreman, I am too. But idk bread, foreman never faced anything like lennox before. I know I know, if mccall and rahman could...this is true, but I'm thinking of a fully motivated and mentally prepared lennox. But he was just to big for most of the other hws.
Just a little something for you to chew on my man, hope all is well with you and yours. And keep fighting the good fight bread, the old heads say it pays off eventually lol.
Your boy marquis from da one n only southeast dc
Breadís Response: Lennox Lewis is a great fighter no doubt. I wasnít crazy about Lennox either but I always respected him. I liked Bowe , but Bowe ducked him. Thatís the only way we can look at that. I donít feel Lennox is the 18th best heavyweight ever. He is higher than that. But heís not on Mt. Rushmore.
Head to Head he rates higher than his historical ranking but I feel more than a prime Ali would beat him. Yes I think a prime Foreman would beat him. That would be a barnburner but a prime Foreman could KILL you. Foreman hit Ken Norton with one of the nastiest combinations ever. Look at that fight and how Norton got into trouble. Foreman hit him with a jab, hook, uppercut all with the same hand and put him on queer street. I have never seen that before or afterwards. Nobody talks about that combination.
I think a prime Joe Louis would have knocked Lennox Lewis out cold. Louis had a subtle way of getting inside of your punches and firing his before you brought your hands back after you punched. His right hand is shorter and more devastating than Lennoxís. Louis always destroyed the bigger guys because the REACTION time was not good enough to stop his lighting fast punches. I also think Jack Johnson could beat Lennox. I studied tapes on Johnson and his reflexes were as good if not better than Aliís. And please donít talk about his heart and stamina. Larry Holmes would have also had a good shot at beating Lennox because of his legs. Holmes was a 15 round fighter and I never believed in Lennoxís gas tank.
I always thought he Bee Essed his way through certain fights. For the record I think Lennox got a break when Ike Ibeabuchi went to jail. I think he would have beat Lennox but that may be a hard sell because we donít know enough about Ike.
I donít mean to knock Lennox he was definitely a great fighter. But average height heavyweights gave him hell. Oliver McCall was not a giant. Look at the first fight. Emanuel Steward gave him perfect instructions between round 1 and 2. He was disorganizing Lennox with a novice punch sequence and he caught him in between shots. Rahman was also able to disorganize Lennox with aggression. Holyfield was way past it when they fought. He hurt Lennox big time in the second fight. I thought Lennox beat him 7 to 5 butÖÖ Also remember Frank Bruno severely hurt Lennox.
Do me a favor and look at Sonny Listonís fights before he won the title. Pick one, my favorite is Cleveland Williams. Liston would knock Lennox Lewis out in my opinion, similar to how Rahman did.
Iím giving you a visual on how superior offensive talent could have got to Lennox without being a giant. I still say give me a man 220 that is 6í3. Thatís all you need. The bigger guys donít have the reaction to slip punches. They only use their size to parry punches. When you get inside of their built in defense you destroy them. It happens everytime. Think about that for a second. Besides Riddick Bowe, the other successful giants are K2 bros and Lennox. Their defenses are to extend their arms so you have to punch through their guards, or grab you when you get closeÖÖ.
I read your bag all the time and find most of what you say and how you respond to be spot on. Iím kind of bothered by the lack of respect that Andre Ward gets after all heís accomplished, especially in such a short period of time. I know a lot of it can be blamed on his lack of heavy promotion and his smooth/grinding anti-climactic style. However, all these guys seem to spout off about this guy and that guy being great after a decent win or two without giving Andre his props, when, what I see, is a young potentially all-time great building a great legacy in front of our eyes falling under the radar as heís mowing the best guys in his division down. Even though he hadnít fought anyone of note heading into the Super Six, I could tell he was starting to sharpen up, come into his own and get more acclimated to the pro game. I told all my friends that he was going to clean house in the tournament (and, that was even with me being a big Mikkel Kessler fan). Andre Ward didnít win me over as a fan early on either, especially after Iíd seen him buzzed by subpar competition, but you have to respect a man of such great character, self-belief and respect for the game as you watch him develop on the big stage and do things to very tough, skilled guys, that youíve never seen done to them before. Nobody wants a rematch with Ward, and your Holyfield analogy was very accurate. I think it will help open peoplesí eyes on what a truly great fighter Andre Ward is on the path to becoming. Ward vs. Dawson may not be fight of the year, but is by far the fight that Iím looking forward to most.
Take care man,
Breadís Response: People will open up to Andre Ward. Heís a great interview and one of the best, most precise talkers in boxing. Mark my words he will be the next fighter that HBO or Showtime hire to do their broadcast.
As for his fighting ability, his style gets appreciated with longevity. Bernard Hopkins was not appreciated until he was 36 years old, after the Trinidad fight. Guys who are more cerebral and less awe inspiring take longer for the public to grasp, thatís why itís important he fights BIG fights.
When WE look at fighters, we want them to do what WE want them to do at that time. Itís natural human behavior. We are anxious. We like blistering satisfaction. Thatís why ACTION fighters, drama fighters and punchers are beloved. But guys are Ward are respected over the long haul especially if they fight BIG fights. The importance of his battles will win us over. Itís up to his promotional team to build up opponents for him. Build them into monsters. After this good advice Andre may need to hire me lolÖÖ.
You know, I'm glad Cotto is fighting Trout and not Pacman. I'm a Cotto fan and as good as he is, Pacman is just better. Their first fight might have been entertaining at times and made them a truckload of money, but it just wasn't the type of fight that made you clamor for a rematch. The better man won. No shame in that. By giving a young up and comer a shot Cotto is doing boxing a favor. As guys get older, it's good for the public to get exposed to some new talent. The flipside to this argument is the rumor that Pacman is fighting Marquez again. Why? I'm sure Marquez is still bitter for failing to beat Pacman on the scorecards, but this doesn't make much sense. They are evenly matched in the ring. Judges like Pacman just a little bit better. Get over it. I don't care what the outcome is, this fight doesn't do much for boxing in general. Pacman (actually, Arum) should do what Cotto is doing and match him up with an up and comer and see what happens. Plenty of young talent out there willing to fight Pacman for a career high payday.
Good breakdown on Ward-Dawson. Not much to add except for one quick thing. You mentioned Ward getting hurt by uppercuts. In the Bika fight, probably with about 10 seconds left, I think I remember watching Ward get clipped with a left hook as they were breaking from a clinch. People either didn't notice it or glossed over it, but Ward finished that fight on really shaky legs. With Dawson's speed, a quick hook from close range could be a good, low risk weapon for him.
Breadís Response: I actually think Cotto vs Pac would be slightly intriguing because of the so called weight advantage Pac had in the first fight, and now because of Cottoís new trainer. But I agree Pacquiao is just the better fighter.
You make a good point about Pac/Marquez. As great as they are nobody wants to see that again. People say Pac is the benefit of good matchmaking but if you look closely thatís not necessarily the case. Historically speaking Pac was the underdog in his first four title tries. Then he was brought into to lose against Oscar. Then fighting Joshua Clottey on PPV was not easy. Clottey was one of those hardcore appreciated fighters that couldnít sell. Most PPV stars donít even bother with a guy like Clottey. Margarito was so much bigger it became dangerous and fighting Marquez over and over only hurts his credibility.
I think Cotto, Mosley and Bradley were good picks but overall Top Rank does not do Manny any favors. Now he will probably lose his second fight in row because heís facing a guy who has seen his style four times. Think about that. I respect that Manny wants to beat him convincingly but the reality of it is, PAcquiao is more impressionable on the judges than Marquez is so he consistently gets the nods. He should leave it alone. But human error will kick in soon and if they fight in December Iím picking Marquez. Top Rank should create an opponent for Manny instead of recycling one.
Bread have you ever seen a fighter come in 8lbs over the weight limit? Is Gonzales signed with Gary Shaw? What do you think of him as a fighter? What do you think of Triple G as a fighter and who is he signed with?
Breadís Response: As far as I know Jonathon Gonzales is a Gary Shaw fighter. I believeShaw co promotes him with a few other promoters. In my opinion Gonzales is absolutely disgusting for coming in 8lbs over. I have never seen that before. There should be a limit as to how much a fighter can come in over weight. 8lbs is just mind boggling. Then the kid got on the scale like was close to the weight, holding his breath and allÖ.. Gonzales is a decent fighter with a good punch, but I donít think much of any fighter who comes in that overweight. He actually beat Dzinzurik in my opinion but Iím glad he got the draw. He didnít deserve to win that fight, when you disrespect this sport like that, you get that kind of karma. Iím interested to see if HBO will have him back.
Gennady Golovkin looks like the real deal. He looks to have really heavy hands, lots of confidence, no wear and tear and plenty of amateur pedigree. I donít want to put him on the p4p list just yet though. He was extended 10 rounds by a shopworn Kasim Ouma. That tells me what I saw in this last fight. If you can push him back and stay off the end of his bombs you can do some things. Ouma is a worker bee, who tries to push everybody backwards. That tells me something. Iím a Golovkin fan, he seems like an ambitious warrior and thatís what we need. But I wonít anoint him like HBO did because itís an insult to the game.
The boxing ring tells the truth all the time. We need to see him against more elite fighters before we go off. Heís definitely barking up the right tree by asking for Andre WardÖ. We shall see.
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